Dr. Mary Gardner’s new book, It’s Never Long Enough: A practical guide to caring for your geriatric dog, is a wonderful collection of stories, lessons learned, and practical approaches from a career serving pets at the ends of their lives. Dr. Gardner discusses the writing of the book, her next book on cats, the chapters she’s most proud of, and some of the stories that she shares in her texts. Whether you are a pet owner with a geriatric dog, or a medical professional who wants to exponentially increase the number of tips and tricks you have to offer pet owners, this book is worth unpacking.
You can also listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Soundcloud, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts!
LINKS
Buy the Book: DrMaryGardner.com/books
Dr. Mary Gardner on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drmarygardner
The Uncharted Veterinary Podcast
https://unchartedvet.com/uncharted-veterinary-podcast/
Retain Your Team: Languages of Appreciation in your Workplace
Creating Content that Clients Crave
What’s on my Scrubs?! Card Game: https://drandyroark.com/training-tools/
Dr. Andy Roark Swag: drandyroark.com/shop
All Links: linktr.ee/DrAndyRoark
ABOUT OUR GUEST
There is nothing better to Dr. Mary Gardner than a dog with a grey muzzle or skinny old cat! Her professional goal is to increase awareness and medical care for the geriatric veterinary patient and to help make the final life stage to be as peaceful as possible, surrounded with dignity and support for all involved.
A University of Florida graduate (AND ANDY’S CLASSMATE!), she discovered her niche in end of life care and is the co-founder and CIO of Lap of Love which has over 250 veterinarians around the country dedicated to veterinary hospice and euthanasia in the home.
Dr. Gardner and Lap of Love have been featured in Entrepreneur Magazine, The New York Times, the Associated Press, The Doctors and numerous professional veterinary publications. She is co-author of the textbook “The Treatment and Care of the Veterinary Patient”, co-author of a children’s activity book focused on saying goodbye to a dog called “Forever Friend”, and the author of a book dedicated to pet owners “It’s Never Long Enough: A practical guide to caring for your geriatric dog”. Dr. Gardner also won VMX Small Animal Speaker of the year in 2020!
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
This podcast transcript is made possible thanks to a generous gift from Banfield Pet Hospital, which is striving to increase accessibility and inclusivity across the veterinary profession. Click here to learn more about Equity, Inclusion & Diversity at Banfield.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome everybody to The Cone of Shame Veterinary Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Andy Roark. Guys, I am here with one of my good friends. We went to vet school together. Gosh. She’s done so much for our profession. She is one of the funniest, most fun people that I have met in my life. Dr. Mary Gardner is here on the podcast.
Dr. Andy Roark:
We are talking about her new book, It’s Never Long Enough: A Practical Guide for Caring for Your Geriatric Dog. She has a practical guide for caring for your geriatric cat coming out later this year. Man, she tells stories from the book and you will see why she’s amazing.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Honestly, guys, I’m to going to sit down and read this book, because she sold me on it. What she’s doing is just awesome. It’s hard to believe that somebody could talk about geriatric care and end of life care and make it uplifting and fun and interesting. She crushes it. Anyway, guys, I’ll show you. Let’s get into this episode.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter:
(Singing) This is your show, we’re glad you’re here, we want to help you in your veterinary career. Welcome to the Cone of Shame with Dr. Andy Roark.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome to the podcast. Dr. Mary Gardner. How are you?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I’m good, Andy. How are you?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Man, I’m good. It’s good to see you again.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I know. Listen, we go way back.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yes. We do. I had that thought getting ready for this. I was like, we have to be careful or this going to become one of those, “Remember in vet school,” episodes.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I know.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I’m not going to let that happen, but we could totally do that.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Okay. We won’t. But it’s like 18 years now or something ridiculous from when we first met.
Dr. Andy Roark:
It is. It’s amazing. Time flies by. Look at us.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I know.
Dr. Andy Roark:
We’re in vastly different places than when we met. You are, for those who don’t know, one of the co-founders of Lap of Love. That hospice. You are an entrepreneur. You do a lot of different things. You are a wonderful lecturer and really funny person and a light in veterinary medicine. You’re also an author. You have a new book out.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I do.
Dr. Andy Roark:
It’s called, It’s Never Long Enough: A Practical Guide to Caring for Your Geriatric Dog. What is that like?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
It’s a lot of work, let me tell you, but it’s something I’ve wanted to write for many years. Because doing end of life care … You see some hot messes. You see some jalopies. Having the lens of being able to go to somebody’s homes, I saw so many families struggle with their older pets and not know how to practically care for them in the home. Whether they were seen by their veterinarian or not for their last year of life, which is a sad statistic in itself.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
A lot of us vets focus just on the medicine and don’t know … What’s the best harness to recommend? What about all the booties that are available? What do you do when the dog is pooping all over the house? How do you clean it? And so, the families were lacking that practical home care. Just doing hospice. That’s a big part of hospice, is the environmental setup. Along with palliative care.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I just have been wanting to write this for the pet owner for a long time. We helped write a textbook for veterinarians, but I just wanted something for the pet owners. However, it’s really good for everybody. Technicians. Veterinarians. It’s pretty comprehensive. I started it probably over three years ago and it’s 500 pages. It’s pretty long.
Dr. Andy Roark:
It’s called It’s Never Long Enough. That’s the story of you writing the book.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I had to stop. It was horrible.
Dr. Andy Roark:
It’s 500 pages. It’s a 500-page book. This is not a pamphlet that you put out.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
No.
Dr. Andy Roark:
First of all, it’s a real book. You can get it on Amazon. I’ll put links in the show notes. There’s nothing second tier about this. It is 100% gold star all the way.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
It’s a real thing. There’s 250 pictures and it’s all color.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Wow.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I didn’t want to be … I wanted it to be gold standard. There you go.
Dr. Andy Roark:
No. I say that jokingly, but I say that fully impressed with what you’ve put together. It’s amazing. And so, let’s be honest. How many of us wish that we had time to walk through with pet owners and talk about these things?
Dr. Andy Roark:
We know that pet owners have tons of questions, but just basic things are, “What am I looking for in a harness?” They don’t even know to ask about a harness. They don’t know what they don’t know. They don’t know that’s a thing that they should even consider.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And so, when they don’t even know what questions to ask us, how can we support them? I think that it’s amazing that you took your knowledge from going into people’s homes. From work and doing hospice care for … What? You guys started Lap of Love in 2009?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
- Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
12 years. 13 years, at this point?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
13 years. It’s crazy.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That’s been what you do. It’s been your passion. 13 years of being in people’s homes. You said, “This is what I see people struggling with.” Or, “This is the things that I wish I could tell them or that they have asked along the way.” This is an amazing resource. Because most of us, we love to have those quality of life conversations. Ways to help pet owners.
Dr. Andy Roark:
But most of us don’t have time to really unpack those sorts of things. I don’t know. I tell you. I’m one of those people where … When I have a complex problem or I have something that’s significant in my life, I like to read about it. I’m a reader. Give me a book to sit down with and get what I need. That’s how I learn.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I could see you doing that.
Dr. Andy Roark:
100%. I have the most eclectic book collection from different passing fancies in my life.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
That’s awesome. Listen, I had to recently clear out my book shelves. I was getting a little analysis paralysis. I dumped about 100 books recently, but I’m like you too. I just take little bits and I’m a little sponge.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I need to purge books. I still have all of our books from vet school.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Listen, I threw out a lot. There’s a few I kept. Internal Medicine. Dermatology.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I’m going to go back and be like, “Let’s check back in 2006. See what Internal Medicine standards were there.” Why do I have that? I don’t know, but I do.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I don’t know. Exactly. I love it.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Let’s start to unpack this a little bit. When you sat down to write this book, were there major things? You were like, “These are the takeaways that I really want to hammer home.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Or were there objectives that you had in creating the book? Where you’re like, “I really want pet owners to understand these concepts.” Or, “These are areas that I don’t feel they’re getting from conversations they’re having with vets now.”
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I think a little bit of all of that. There’s repetitive conversations I would have in the homes over and over and over again. So I’m like, “Okay. Definitely, have that.” But one thing I wanted to do is not create a book about all the diseases a pet gets.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Right.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
In this case, it’s dogs. I’m working on the cat book. That’ll be out this summer. But I didn’t want just, “Diabetes …” The list of all the diseases. I wanted to focus on the ailments that they struggle with and how to help them. For instance, mobility, which is the number one issue I see in older dogs. And so, whether they’ve got arthritis or a disc issue or DM. Or whatever it may be.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
My girl, Sam, she had cancer in her spinal cord. Random. And so, no matter what the problem is, or the disease is, rather … The problem is they can’t move. They can’t get up and down well. How do we help support the family? How do we set up the home to do that?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Same thing with incontinence. Whether it’s because you’ve got diabetes or just a bad sphincter. How do we keep pets clean and keep the home sane? Because it’s not easy when you have an in incontinent pet. Number one or number two. So I wanted to focus a portion of the book on just the ailments.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
And then, for the dog, there were though a few diseases that I just wanted to shout out that really are very geriatric-focused. For instance, Lar Par is one that just needed a chapter. Probably, because I had a dog with Lar Par, so I had to give it a little nod.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Sure. No. I get that. I love that you think of it that way. It’s so easy for us as doctors to look at disease and to classify it as disease symptoms. When you were saying that, I was like, “I would totally do that.” You know what I mean? I’m an explainer. And so, I would want them to understand the mechanisms of diabetes and what this means and blah, blah, blah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
The truth is, they don’t care. Their doctor is working with them to manage it. They don’t need to understand the pathology. They need to understand the symptoms and managing. Basically, home nursing care, in a lot of ways.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
That’s it.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That makes a ton of sense.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Right? The dogs are there panting and pacing. Is it because they’re on steroids or they’ve got a cognitive dysfunction? How do we settle them down? How do we keep them sane and us sane? And so, it is a lot of a lot of nursing care. I’ve learned so much from families over the years.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
They taught me a lot of home hacks. I’m like, “I never would’ve thought of that.” They’re just amazing. I put so much into that book. I mentioned over 200 pictures. They’re all from the families I learned from. And so, they were all so happy to be a part of this book too and have their pets help others along the way.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I bet those were wonderful phone calls or emails to send, when you’re like, “Hey. I’m writing a book to help pet owners and I have pictures of your pet from back in the day. Can I use this as an example of someone who figured a thing out that was going to be helpful?” I bet they loved it.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
They were like, “I have more,” Andy. They were loving it. And so, this is when I lecture to veterinarians and I say, “Our websites. Look at your website. It’s all puppies, kittens, and adults. You have no geriatric old dogs or cats on your website. You need to have some education on your website about how to manage these symptoms.”
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Trust me. Your pet owners will send their pictures in, will send the videos in. All that stuff. I remember this one woman. Her dog, Merdog … I wanted to show her kitchen. She had all the bath mats in the kitchen and they were matched up so that the patterns were matching of all the bath mats that she had.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That’s amazing.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
She tried to do it cute. And so, I said, “Hey. Can I share this picture in the book?” And so, she’s like, “But look at my countertop. It’s so dirty.” I’m like, “Nobody’s looking at your countertop. They’re looking at Merdog and all his bath mats.” It was great.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That’s awesome. That’s really, really great. What did you learn doing the dog book that you’re going to do differently in the cat book? Because of …
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Try to keep it under 175,000 words?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I wanted to have stories in it too, because so many people will remember more things about a story and connect with stories. I wanted to have a lot of stories. And I think I’ve helped more dogs than I have cats. Just like us. In GP too, you’ll see 30% cats. Or whatever the statistic is.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
And so, I’m finding it harder to go back in the history of my brain for some of those cat stories. Not that I want to. I want to have more cat stories. I probably won’t do too much different. I actually started this book with both species in mind. I was building it with both. The publishers that I was talking to, they all said, “You’ve got to split it up.”
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I was almost done with it and they’re like, “You’ve got to split it.” Then, I took about five months to take out the cats. I can now put the cats back in. They just said, “They’re different species.” The owners are different. The families are different. There’s more cat owners out there. I think we focus so much on dog stuff. I hope they’ll appreciate it, if you will.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
The sad part is, a lot of research has been done in dogs more than cats. I’m struggling to find some of that. I’ll just have to say, “This is the stuff that’s been done on dogs, but we haven’t done the same research on longevity and things like that.” But I hope that it’s going to be just as helpful for them as it is for the doggies.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I think there’s truth to that. Of splitting them out versus putting them together. Just in the way that dog owners and cat owners are very different people. I think that they’ll probably find it more accessible if they say, “No. This is a cat book,” or, “This is a dog book,” as opposed to rolling them together.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
There’s the first section of the book. Because it’s broken into four parts. The first part is all about aging. And so, why does a big dog not have as long of a lifespan as a little dog? What are the things that we could do to help extend their lifespan? Things like that.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
But for cats, they’re very similar. Usually the same size. And so, it’ll be a little bit shorter. But there’s still so many things that we could do to help keep our pets living a lot longer. Even some of the ways that we memorialize our pets. It can be very similar, but there’s also differences in how we may do that.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Hey, everybody. I just want to jump in real quick with a couple of updates. This week, over on the Uncharted Veterinary Podcast, which is the other podcast I do with the one and only Stephanie Goss … I’m not on that episode. Stephanie Goss is talking about information security. Are you storing data in your practice like you’re supposed to? Guys, this is not an area where you want to get burned.
Dr. Andy Roark:
If you are not up-to-date or you’re feeling like, “I should probably listen to that,” head over to the Uncharted Veterinary Podcast and check it out. Uncharted workshops coming at you guys. On May the 21st, which is just a couple of days after this episode comes out. At 2:00 PM Eastern, 11:00 AM Pacific, Stephanie Goss, she is teaching our workshop, Retain your Team: Speak the Languages of Appreciation in Your Workplace.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Guys, you’re trying to get your team motivated. You’re trying to keep morale up. You’re trying to keep people engaged. You want your team to stick around, to enjoy the work that they’re doing, and to feel they matter to you and to the patients. Guys, are you talking about appreciation in your workplace? Are you doing it effectively?
Dr. Andy Roark:
If not, jump in. This is a little bit higher level. We had an entry-level appreciation workshop. This is a bit more down into the nitty gritty. I think people are going to get lot out of it. It is $99 to the public. It is free to our Uncharted members. I’ll put a link down in this show notes below.
Dr. Andy Roark:
On June the 8th, my friend Bill Schroeder, veterinary marketing specialist, CEO of InTouch Veterinary Marketing, he is going to be doing his lectures … It’s not lectures. It’s a workshop called Creating Content that Clients Crave. This is all about you spending your time smartly to make resources that educate clients, that answer questions, that protect your reputation. That do all of the things that you wish you had content for, but you just don’t have all the time in the world to make.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Most of us are spending too much time doing things like posting stupid social media stuff. Guys, it’s time to get a strategy. It’s time to get smart about how we communicate digitally. Bill Schroeder is the guy to do that. It is $99 to the public. It is free for Uncharted members. Guys, both of those things are coming up. I’m going to put links to both of them in the show notes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Let’s get back into this episode. Can you talk a little bit about that? That’s one of the things that you talk a lot about. And I always take notes. Whether they’re mental or physical notes. But when we talk about honoring pets and memorializing pets, this is something that you think a lot about. I really like the way that you think about it.
Dr. Andy Roark:
When you start to approach a conversation with a pet or about memorializing their pets, or they say, “Hey. I really want to remember my pet.” Or, “I want to honor my pet’s memory.” How do you approach that conversation? What are the things that you think are important as far as talking to pet owners about after their pet has passed and the memories of their pets?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Such a good question, Andy. The first and most important thing I think as veterinarian professionals is to not judge. I’ll lecture to clinicians and say … Even when the receptionist is on the phone saying, “Do you want his ashes back or not?” Actually, just saying it that way, I don’t like. Because that is, “Do you want his ashes back or not?”
Dr. Mary Gardner:
It’s almost like saying not getting ashes back means you love them less. That is further from the truth. There are plenty of us that may not want the ashes back of our pet. So I’ll say, “Instead of saying that, you should say, would you the crematory to spread the ashes for you? Or would you them back in an urn?” And so, there’s no judgment.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
First off, most important. No judgment. Because what you would do or I would do is totally different. It doesn’t equate to the love of our pet, but I love to have all the options. Because I think a lot of people are scared to ask. Because they may think we’re judging. And that’s not true either.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
We’re so set on just the ashes, but there is a lot more that we can do. From of course, the paw prints or the fur clipping. I just like to not even offer it. I’ll just do things. I just do the paw print. I don’t say, “Do you want one?” Because somebody may say no. I’ve got in the book 75 different ways to memorialize your pet.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That’s amazing. That’s amazing.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I talk about diamonds. I just got a diamond made out my pet’s ashes, because I had to try it out. That’s my excuse. Had to do that. I also think that sometimes we may hear something unusual, and we think that’s a little crazy. But it’s not. If somebody wants to dehydrate their cat, you should know where that’s at and how they can do it. I have learned where that’s at.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Hold on, I’m acting like, “Yeah.” I’m sorry. I can’t keep this up. I’m sorry.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
No.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Why would someone want to dehydrate their cat? Is that a thing?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Listen, I have no idea. But you know what? I’m also not a hunter. I have no idea why somebody would want it to put a dead deer on their wall, but they do.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
And that’s something you killed.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Have you had someone who wanted to dehydrate their cat?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Yes. We’ve had …
Dr. Andy Roark:
Or did you make that up?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I love your face.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I’m sorry. I’m trying to … I’m not judging. I’m trying to understand. Again, I’m not …
Dr. Mary Gardner:
No. You’re having a natural reaction between two professionals.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Totally.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Wait. Hold on. I have just made Andy Roark quiet.
Dr. Andy Roark:
This is the face I would make if the pet owner asked me to dehydrate their cat. I would be like, “Act normal, Andy,” but I wouldn’t know how to roll with that.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Okay. Well, that’s why you get my book. Chapter 39.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I now feel a strong motivation to sit down and really pour over this.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
That was an extreme in some ways. But some people want the canine teeth and we’re like, “God. That’s a mini surgery to take those out.” It’s not even just that extreme. The physical memorial items. But even maybe during the euthanasia. That is the funeral for the majority of our families.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Although we are performing the death part of it, that is the funeral. Let’s make it really good. If a family wants to play harp music, let them play harp music. If the family wants to take pictures, let them take pictures. I have been on videos before.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
A lot of veterinarians freak out over that, because they don’t want somebody video taping them doing something. But I will do it. I’m fine with that, if that’s what the family wants to do, is memorialize this. I love … My favorite thing, Andy, is bucket lists. I love them.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I think having a bucket list is so nice, because it helps us do the things that we wish we would do before they would die. And then, taking pictures during those moments. Having professional photo shoots and things like that can really be very helpful. We don’t have to think about the creepy dehydrated cat. Maybe an actual photo shoot with them before they’re dehydrated.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Before. Yes. Before. Yes.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Before. I just think … It’s not only important not to judge, but this isn’t about you. It’s not about us.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I think that’s totally important. You and I sort of laugh about it. But in another way, you go, “It’s not my thing. And this is not my tradition.” It’s not how I see the world or something I’m familiar with, but that doesn’t make it wrong. I’m not the arbiter of what is …
Dr. Mary Gardner:
What is correct.
Dr. Andy Roark:
What is an end of life ritual? I don’t decide that.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
No. What I love is being a part of all those different rituals. I’ve been at Jewish funerals. The family is Jewish and they’re, [Hebrew 00:22:03]. They’re doing their prayer over it. I’ve been at American-Indian. There’s just such amazing prayers and rituals. I’ve been at atheist. I’ve been a part of every single kind. Buddhist.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
It’s just so cool to see the respect that they have for their pet that they would do for their own family member. It’s just amazing. I did a Facebook Live the other day on pet hospice for pet owners. I had about a half an hour of questions afterwards. I was like, “Ask me anything.” Which could be scary, but …
Dr. Andy Roark:
Sure.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Somebody wanted to know how long can they keep their pet after it’s passed. And so, a lot of veterinarians would be like, “Instantly, it needs to go in the freezer.” That’s actually not the case. I said, “It’s okay. If you want to keep your pet for a day or two, let me tell you what will happen just so you’re prepared. Let me tell you what rigor mortis happens and when it goes away.”
Dr. Mary Gardner:
How to keep them clean. We’ve got to be in an air conditioned location. Stuff like that. The guy was so thankful. He’s like, “I just want one more night with him in my house.” That’s okay. And I told them the story about … I let my girl Sam go last year. I did it at night. It was eight o’clock at night. I just wrapped her up in a blanket.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Her little head was still out of the blanket. And I brought her the next day to the crematory myself. 18 hours later, she’s getting cremated. But it’s not like they explode or anything. It’s just so not normal for us to think about. But if a pet dies in their sleep, or dies when you’re not home, they’re there sometimes for 12 hours.
Dr. Andy Roark:
No. That does make sense. When you think about rituals that people have … You talked about a bunch of very different experiences. A big diversity of experiences. You’re not imagining being the veterinarian who’s there and participating.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Do you have any advice for me about when people have rituals that are not your rituals? They have a cultural ritual or a prayer ritual or something. You go, “I don’t know anything about this.” Any advice for me? Because I want to go in and be supportive. But I don’t know exactly what I’m walking into or what my place is. Help me navigate those waters a little bit.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Well, the great thing about you, Andy, is that you actually are very humble. That’s the first thing to do is just be humble. Ask questions. Be respectful of it. Small things that you may not think of like not walking over the pet’s body. A lot of people may just do that. They’ll step over the pet and I’m like, “You can’t do that.” What if this was grandma? You would not do that.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
And then, just simply asking the questions. Or, “How can I help?” I said this earlier. It’s not about what I would do. I told you this once, Andy, and I think you liked my little joke I said once. True story. I had a vet student come up to me and she said, “I’m an atheist. What should I tell a family if they asked me if my dog goes to the rainbow bridge?”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Wow.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
And so, I said, “Okay. Well, so let me just confirm this.” Because I’m not an atheist. With a name like Mary … I have been to church. I said, “Just to confirm. As an atheist, you don’t believe in heaven. Right?”
Dr. Mary Gardner:
And so, she goes, “Correct.” I said, “All right. If a family is asking you, “Does my dog go to heaven?” Most chances are, they’re not atheist. They just want the answer to be yes.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yes. Just say yes.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Just say freaking yes people. Who cares if you’re an atheist? Just say yes. It’s going to make them feel okay. And it really doesn’t matter if you lie and go to hell, because you don’t believe in hell either.
Dr. Andy Roark:
There’s no downside for you. Just tell them.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
There’s no downside.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Tell them what they need to hear.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
If you want me to hold the incense? I will do it. Whatever you need me to do. I just can’t sing very well. It’s just being open-minded. I also like to … For those of you who know me in person like you do. I’m literally big.
Dr. Andy Roark:
You are.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I’m 6’1″. I’m very energetic. I have to shut that down a little bit and be small and be respectful of space and also be respectful of silence. I think so many of us get in these awkward situations where we want to fill the silence with noise and chatter. And if they’re doing a prayer, or they’ve got their eyes closed, just shut up. Just be quiet.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I know that a lot of people will say, “Ask them how they got their pet’s name and stuff like that.” The last five minutes you have with your pet, you want with your pet. You don’t want to be talking about nonsense to somebody else. I’m just a little fly on the wall. I explain the medical part of it.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
And I say, “If there’s any other way that you want to honor your pet or any other rituals, I’m here to support you. Just tell me what I need to do.” They’re all so happy that I offer that. Sometimes they’re like, “Nope. We’re fine.” Or they’ve asked me to read a poem. My Lord. I’ve cried so many times reading poems.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Gosh.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
That’s the other thing. People say, “Can we cry during euthanasia?” I’m like, “Yes.” It’s silly to try to hold that in. But you’ll learn a lot from the family. That way, the next time, it’s not a total shock or surprise.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Tell me about a time that you had a hospice experience with a family. You went into a home and you had something that sort of changed your perspective. Was there something that you can remember that really just shook the way that you think about what you do?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I think, when I first started doing this, I was still a younger vet. I started doing this two years out of vet school. And so, we go in so much with caring … Or sorry. Curing. Curing and all the stuff that goes involved. But I remember, Andy. Andy. Ha. Andy was the dog’s name.
Dr. Andy Roark:
This does not end well for Andy. That’s the thing.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
No.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
But I remember Andy and he wasn’t eating very well. This was when I lived in Southern California. Andy had seen every single specialist. And I thought to myself … I had a moment of almost imposter syndrome where I was like, “What am I, DVM-only, no extra letters after my name, going to help with this family?”
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I walked into Andy’s house and she handed me this huge stack of medical records and everything. I realized she didn’t need me to read all that. She just wanted to show me that she was trying and that she cared. I just put that aside and I just said, “What are you struggling with?” And it just really helped me shift to know that I have to ask first. What’s the biggest problem are they dealing with?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Because we could go through all the inappetence or with the disease. She just said, “He’s not sleeping with me at night. And I want that again.” Just to shift, to make sure, “What is important to you?” We could look at their disgusting teeth and talk about doing a dental exam. But if they’re not sleeping at night at all, you’ve got to address that first.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
And so, I think that pet Andy made me remember. You’ve got to start off with what’s most important. What’s our goals of care? Sometimes it’s not just about the physical exam. Andy, by the way, he was a spicy dog. I actually couldn’t touch Andy at all. And I said, “That’s okay. That’s fine.”
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Because when Andy doesn’t care that I’m here, and he lets me touch him, then we know that it’s definitely time. He’s a sassafras and that’s okay. And so, it just made me aware that we could do so much with specialty and all that stuff. But having this conversation with the family of what are their goals of care. She actually was one that wanted to know about diamonds with the ashes afterwards.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
And I’m like, “I’ve got to look up what’s the best diamond company to do.” It can be so simple. Hospice and end of life care. It doesn’t have to be … So many people freak out over it and are just so focused on the diagnosis and the curing. But it’s just about caring. I loved Andy. He’s in my book too. So many are there.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
I remember this other one, Bogie. He’s in there too. I saw him December 10th for hospice. He had lymphoma. And the family’s big concern was should they put him on the Christmas card or not? Because he’s always on the Christmas card. I said, “Absolutely. I don’t know if he’ll be here for Christmas, but let’s get him on the Christmas card anyway.”
Dr. Mary Gardner:
We let him go New Year’s Eve, so he made it through Christmas. But to them, it was so important. And I said, “All right. I want you going every day to the beach.” Because he loved the beach. Since he can still go, take videos. They would send me videos. It meant so much.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
It is about smelling the roses at the end. We can sometimes forget that. A lot of people think hospice is prolonging suffering and it certainly is not. It is about making sure that they live before they die and they live well.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Dr. Mary Gardner, you are amazing. Thank you for being here. Where can people find you online and where can they get your book?
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Dr. Mary Gardner website, drmarygardner.com. That’s also all my social. Instagram and things like that. My book is available on all the online retailers. Books-A-Million, Barnes & Noble, and Amazon. It is hard cover, soft cover, and also on Kindle if somebody wants to do it that way too. I invested in all the ways.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I was going to say. I saw it’s free on Kindle Unlimited if you have that service. It’s one of the things that’s in there. I’m like, “Oh, man. Nice.”
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Look at that.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Awesome.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
There you go.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Well, thank you. Thank you for being here.
Dr. Mary Gardner:
Thank you, Andy, for having me. It’s really nice to know my classmate is supportive of what we’re all doing. You’re doing awesome things too. Go Gators.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Go Gators. That’s our episode, guys. That’s what I got for you. Thanks again to Dr. Mary Gardner for being here. Guys, I put links in the show notes to her book and to her social media pages. Man, I hope that you guys got as much out of it as I did. Check her book out.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Also, if you were like, “Man, that’s a great podcast …” Do me a favor and leave me an honest review. It’s how people find the show. It means the world to me. Wherever you get your podcasts, that’s the place to drop it. Gang, take care of yourselves. Be well.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Remember to enjoy practice. That’s what I took away from my conversation with Mary. People are interesting and people are good. We’re in a neat place where we get to support people at important moments of their life. That’s a good thing. That’s a purposeful thing. Anyway, guys, take care of yourselves. I’ll see you later.
