Dr. Sam Morello joins us for a conversation on changing lanes in veterinary medicine. Sam shares the mic with Dr. Andy Roark on this episode of the Cone of Shame Veterinary Podcast to discuss her career reinvention, transitioning from a tenured equine surgeon to her current leadership. Dr. Morello shares her personal journey and insights on the importance of self-reflection, identifying personal and professional goals, and the courage required to step outside of one’s comfort zone. She emphasizes the value of focusing on what you’re moving towards rather than what you’re leaving behind, and offers practical advice for veterinarians considering a career change. Gang, let’s get into this episode!
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LINKS
AAVMC Competency-Based Veterinary Education – https://www.aavmc.org/programs/cbve/
Dr. Andy Roark Exam Room Communication Tool Box Team Training Course: https://drandyroark.com/on-demand-staff-training/
Dr. Andy Roark Charming the Angry Client Team Training Course: https://drandyroark.com/charming-the-angry-client/
Dr. Andy Roark Swag: drandyroark.com/shop
All Links: linktr.ee/DrAndyRoark
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Dr. Sam Morello obtained her DVM from Cornell University in 2006, followed by a residency in large animal surgery at the University of Pennsylvania, and became board certified by the ACVS in 2010. Dr. Morello spent over a decade in academia as a large animal surgeon and has been a Courtesy Associate Professor at Cornell’s Center for Veterinary Business and Entrepreneurship. In addition to her clinical research on musculoskeletal disease, she became heavily focused on research related to organizational topics including gender and diversity, career pipelines, compensation, faculty experience, and work-life integration with a goal of directing data-driven strategy for leaders. She has published extensively and lectured nationally and internationally on these topics. In 2022, her work on postgraduate trainee compensation and living wages helped to catalyze a scaled national overhaul, resulting in program salary increases averaging 44% and 25% for interns and residents, respectively. She has served as Assistant Director of Continuing Education for the ACVS, a member of the Board of Directors of the Women’s Veterinary Leadership Development Initiative (WVLDI), an advisor to blendVETâ, a member of the President’s Council of Cornell Women, and as a faculty member of AOVet, where she led a global analysis of organizational demographics and climate to help launch the international AO Access program, dedicated to improving diversity, opportunity, and mentorship in a global community of human and veterinary orthopedic surgeons. Sam joined the AVMA in 2023 as Assistant Director of Education & Research where, as part of her role, she supports the Council on Education as the programmatic accreditors for veterinary medical training programs.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Andy Roark: Welcome everybody to the Cone of Shame Veterinary Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Andrew Roark. Guys, I am here today with my friend, Dr. Sam Morello. This is a really good episode. Guys, this is good. This is a personal episode where I got to talk to Sam. I’ve been really interested in this idea of what it means to reinvent yourself or recreate yourself.
What happens when you’re far down the career path and you think, I don’t think I want to do this anymore, or this isn’t how I want to spend the rest of my career, or I’m, I feel like I’m done here. What do you do with that? And I have a lot of people ask me that. And so when I sat down and said, well, who would I, who would I talk to about this?
Sam Morello was at the top of the list. And so I, I, brought her in. This is someone who was at the top as far as she’s an equine surgeon. She was on the faculty at Wisconsin’s College of Vet Medicine when I met her and she decided to put that, she was tenured. She decided to put that down and go do something different in the vet industry that wasn’t even a job, but she was like, I, this is what I want to go do.
And she, and she sort of made that for herself. And, oh man, she’s so thoughtful and she’s so insightful. And just the advice that she sort of gives in the lessons that she kind of pulled out of her own journey, they’re absolutely worth listening to. And so if you are interested, someone who has ever considered that you might want to do something radically different with the next phase of your career or the next chapter of your life.
This is an episode there’s a hundred percent worth listening to. So anyway, guys, I’m really proud of this one for your listening pleasure. The interview with Dr. Sam Morello
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: This is your show. We’re glad you’re here. We want to help you in your veterinary career. Welcome to the Cone of Shame with Dr. Andy Roark.
Dr. Andy Roark: Welcome to the podcast. Dr. Sam Morello. Thanks for being here.
Dr. Sam Morello: Hi, Andy. Thanks for having me back.
Dr. Andy Roark: Always. You are always welcome here. You are one of the people that I always have conversations with and then walk away and think about what you said for like a week and it was funny. I got you back on to record this. And I said, before we start this new podcast, I have to ask you more questions about the last time that you were on, because I’ve been thinking about them ever since then.
And so you I just, you were such a gift to me in that I like to have, I like pick ideas, I like rolling. Concepts around in my head and trying to look at them from different angles. And you were just, you were so good at that. And you just, you, you bring up all these really interesting questions just about a profession and, and it’s really kind of why I want to have you on today.
And so I want to change gears from the things we’ve talked about in the past. And so for those who don’t know you, you are the Assistant Director of Education and research for the AVMA, which I think is really interesting. I think education is, is, is really interesting. I’ve written a ton about it and I
talk to a lot of people about how we’re educating doctors and techs. And, but, but, but the real reason I want to talk to you about today is I’ve had some people pose questions to me recently about sort of what they say, what they call reinventing themselves. And so they’ll say, I’m at this place in my career and I feel stagnant or I’ve, I feel like I’ve done what I can do here.
And I just, I want to do something different. And so, so I get requests about, you know, what’s your perspective on this or, or how do you do this? Because I’ve, you know, I’ve changed paths a couple of times. But I started thinking about the people that I know who I feel like have truly sort of reinvented themselves.
And you’re, you’re really up there at the top of my list, because when I met you, you were an equine surgeon, you were at the University of Wisconsin’s College of Veterinary Medicine on the faculty there. And now, you’re full time AVMA, and we talk about vet schools and accreditation, and I don’t think you’ve talked to me about surgery in years and years.
And so to me, you are this complete reinvention of who you were earlier, and it’s even more interesting to me because you were a boarded specialist, like Sam, you were all the way in, like you hit. I don’t mean to make you feel bad, you were, you were way down that path and then you were like I’m out and you like smoke bomb and you’re out and then you reappear on a different path really far down that path and you’re going, so let me, let me just start there and sort of say, when I say that, do you think that that’s a fair representation of kind of the transformation that you made in your career or am I being am I exaggerating?
Dr. Sam Morello: Well, while you were, while you were giving me that very generous intro, I was doing the mental gymnastics to think of the last time I scrubbed into surgery and put on sterile gloves.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah, I was gonna ask you
Dr. Sam Morello: Yeah, I think it was August of 2021. So yeah, it was pretty cold turkey. So I think that everything you said is pretty accurate. I’ve had a couple people who have introduced me as, Oh, this is Sam. She used to be a surgeon.
Dr. Andy Roark: She used to be a surgeon.
Dr. Sam Morello: And, and I, I laugh. I take a little internal offense, but I never get mad. I’d like to think I’m still a surgeon. You know courses through my body and who I am and what I do in so many ways and we can talk about that but no, I, I have not actively done surgery or or practice surgery. Yeah, since late 2021. So, so you’re right.
Dr. Andy Roark: When you left surgery, and we’ll get into kind of where you went, but when you left surgery, did you really go cold turkey? Did you really like to be just, alright that’s my fourth one of the day, and I’m out. And just like clattering clamps and, and
Dr. Sam Morello: Mic drop moment with my gloves, took them off and walked out. I don’t think I knew at the time that that would be, you know, like the last time I would be in an OR. If I knew, I certainly didn’t think about it actively that way, because I’m not sure I would have been able to digest that in like a way that made me happy.
But but yeah, I guess, I guess, I guess I was ready for that at the time, and I wasn’t really, I think my mental framework around it wasn’t about what I was leaving behind, it was what I was moving towards, and I think that thought encapsulates a lot of, of what I talk about, or, or, or think about, or even give advice to people about when they’re thinking about a career shift, or a career re navigation.
That it’s always about it shouldn’t be about what you’re leaving or what you’re running away from. It should always be about what you’re moving towards. And I think that has really been sort of the objective that was always the driving force around my change. It was about what I was moving towards.
And so that wasn’t the thought in my mind, I guess, when I walked out of that OR.
Dr. Andy Roark: It reminds me of when my dad retired, he was a general surgeon on the human side and he retired and he was done and I was like, do you want to do like doctors without borders or something, don’t you want to keep your license up? And he was like, no, I did it. And I’m done with it and now I’m ready for retirement and he like retired hard, you know. He’s got he had lots of projects lined up, but it was funny But I I have always i’ve always still rolled that around of like here’s a person who for my dad He was a surgeon for 30 years and then one day he put the scalpel down and he was like I’m out and that’s that’s it’s interesting.
I think your insight on this, I was thinking about what I was moving towards. I think that that’s really important. When I met you, I didn’t meet you through the context of medicine or surgery. I met you because you were lecturing on the gender wage gap in vet medicine at a summit that I was at, and you crushed it.
Like you were just, I was so immediately impressed with you. It was the first, obviously now that I know you and I said, you inspire me with these ideas. You’re such an interesting thinker. That, but that was the first time that I saw you doing this lecture. And I just thought I was just. Like, wow, she’s, she’s, she’s great.
I have to talk to her. How did you start to move from equine surgery towards sort of gender wage gap? And when I met you, where were you kind of in this transition? Was this still like a hobby that you were doing in your mind? Or did you see this going somewhere? How did you start to put those pieces together as far as, I don’t know, how you, how you saw yourself?
Dr. Sam Morello: Yeah. That’s a really good question. So first of all, I loved surgery. I still love surgery. And that had been the focus of my sort of career path in life for long before I had even gone to vet school. That’s why I wanted to go to vet school. I wanted to be an equine surgeon and I was well into it by the point I met you.
And, and I think that research and that just sort of knowledge development and that, that path was a function of, I had been on this path of being a surgeon and, and meeting that goal. For so long that I was already starting to look for the next challenge and what, you know, what I was gonna, I guess, re navigate myself towards next.
Although I’m not entirely sure that that was conscious. I think that was just subconsciously the way my brain was sort of pushing me. And that research had been born out of, I guess, a confluence of things. I had a lot of students. I had a lot of I guess, you know, I was in the Midwest.
I grew up on the East coast, but I had, I had executed most of my academic career in the Midwest. And I, a lot of younger mostly women, of course, in veterinary school students who were who were married, I think, younger than what I had experienced mostly out in the East Coast and who had, who felt comfortable coming into my office, probably because I was a younger woman and talking to me about their career goals and how they would intersect with their personal lives, particularly as they were planning, you know, planning marriage, starting families, all of that.
And for those that were looking towards a career in equine medicine, equine surgery ambulatory, all of that, in large animal in general, I looked around at the landscape and, and, and didn’t see a lot of, you know, women, young women who had, who had families. And I didn’t feel particularly comfortable giving advice to women or men about how to live their lives and careers based on heuristics, right?
Based on just my observations and, and I didn’t want to, I didn’t want them to make huge decisions that weren’t based on evidence. And so that was really what had started that research for me. I didn’t want it to be based on stereotypes or biases. I wanted to be based on firm knowledge. And, and so, and so that was what drove me.
But, it was also the collection of evidence from what ended up being hundreds and hundreds, ultimately thousands of people as I continued to do some of those studies. And so, that just helped me to learn about people in our profession, right? In a lot of different areas and in academia and private practice, women and men, various generations, people with children, people without children, people who were sort of trying to navigate their careers and their lives.
And it, it just sort of like, I guess, awoke this I guess passion for just understanding how to support people in the veterinary profession, not just women, just people in our, in the veterinary profession. And I think that that was, I guess, what was the, the first trigger towards, okay, well, how, how do I want to live the rest of my career?
And there, there had been a point where I had thought about, okay, well, well, what else do I want to do? Like, do I want to go back to school, get another degree, but I wasn’t really sure what it was. And I did recognize the need for, if you’re going to make a big change, you need to know what you’re going towards, or at least you need to go towards something.
You can’t just be bored of what you’re doing. You need to, you know, you need to have a sort of direction. And, and actually that that meeting that you and I met at was, I think that the first really big forum where I was outside my typical sphere of being with surgeons or just being within the academic community, where I really got to interact with people from a much broader community within veterinary medicine that, that I hadn’t really been tapped into before that, that I started to see what a, a future sort of interacting with
a larger portion of our profession could look like and, and supporting and listening to and working with that broader group in our profession could look like. And it didn’t, it didn’t crystallize yet into what that was going to be, but it just helped sort of continue to push me in that direction and to, to help me acknowledge that that I was going in the right, you know, on the right path.
Dr. Andy Roark: So this brings us to the inflection point that I’m really interested in. And so what I hear in your story is, I was, I was going along, I was doing my thing, and then I kind of found this other area of interest, a need that I wanted to meet, you know, a group I wanted to serve, and so I started to do that work, and I enjoyed it, and I saw a path for it.
And so this brings us to the inflection point. And so here you are, you’re, you’re, were you tenured? You were tenured at this point, right? Right.
Dr. Sam Morello: Yeah, I think I was already promoted or I was just at promotion and a lot of my promotion was contingent upon research, but I had done a lot of other research in the clinical space. And so this research that I was doing was largely unfunded. And it ultimately probably supported my academic advancement, but, but me maybe wasn’t the most central part of my academic advancement because it wasn’t research that was,
you know, classically academic and classically people and funded and all that. So,
Dr. Andy Roark: so, yeah, I hear that. I guess my, my point here is you have, you have a prestigious job, you have a stable job, like you were not an adjunct faculty who wasn’t expected to be there more than another year or two, like you had, you had a lot of stability, you were recognized for your knowledge and your skill.
I mean, you had made it. In a lot of people’s vision of what making it looks like. Yet, here you are standing at the precipice of, I have this thing I’m interested in. Surely you didn’t know that there was a life for you, you know, further down this path. I didn’t, I didn’t know there was a life for someone further down that path.
And so talk to me about letting go. Of the stability of where you were and stepping out into the myths of where you thought you could go
Dr. Sam Morello: So in his book, The Sun Also Rises, Hemingway talks about how people go bankrupt, they go bankrupt very slowly and then all at once. And I think that’s how I came to this. It was very slowly and then all at once. So I think I met you in 2019 and I can actually remember the moment that I knew I needed help.
To, to, to change and it was in early 2021 and I, I had just gone through some, some changes in my own life and I, I was busy thinking about those and, and I was like what, you know, why do I feel so unsettled right now? What, what am I, what am I struggling with? And I sat up and I was like, Oh, I need to change.
I need to make a career change. It’s time for me to leave academia. It’s time for me to do something different. And, and truly, I remember sitting on my couch in my home. I remember exactly where I was and it happened in a moment. And I was like, and I’ve known this for a while and I’ve known this for a couple of years and it’s just been, it’s just been additive.
And it, and it, and it was a confluence of many things. It was about career. It was about, a lot of different, you know, changes I, I wanted to make and, and, but, but it, but it was like a moment of clarity that, that I was finally able to sort of, I guess, say, say that to myself, right? You’ve talked about the changing or being able to step away from being a surgeon.
It’s stepping away from an entire identity, right? What had been close to 30 years on a path of wanting to do this and you’re right a successful, a very successful career and, and respect in a community that I had worked very hard for and really not entirely having any knowledge of what the next thing would be, but knowing that if I was going If there was going to be a next thing that I was gonna have to take a very difficult step to, to try to get to it.
And so it was, yeah, it, it, it happened very, very, very slowly, cumulatively. And then I, I think I just realized it all at once. And, and it was in that decision that I decided to kind of figure out what it was gonna take to make that change.
Dr. Andy Roark: How did you feel when you had that realization? So I’ve had that experience before where I say something out loud to myself, if that makes sense, where it’s like, I, I’ve been, I know this has been percolating in my mind, but it has not formed into actual words where I said, I need to leave. You know what I mean?
And then once those words come into my mind. I know that they’re true and then it’s interesting. What is their emotional reaction when you hear those words in your own mind? Were you, were you sad? Were you elated? Were you excited? Like what, what was your, how did you feel when you’re like, I guess, I guess I’m going to go, like, how did that feel?
Dr. Sam Morello: I mean, many things, but mostly liberated, right? Like mostly liberated, whatever the truth sets you free. And, and I, and I realized that that was like, that was definitely what was the most true for me. And of course it was going to be hard and scary. And I would, you know, nothing, nothing comes without a cost and you have to give something up to get something else and all of those things, and those come with their own emotions, but, but mostly I felt liberated because I.
I tend to have a pretty, I don’t know, gut reaction to most things. And I, and I deep down knew just, yep, you’re right. This is what’s right for you. And, and I felt pretty confident in that. I have got some huge news. My new card game is out. That’s right. If you are a fan of the last card game that me and my team made it was called what’s on my scrubs. You’re going to love our brand new card game. It’s called Dr. Know It All. It is a trivia game meant to be played in teams. It’s a mixture of trivia and BS and it is guaranteed to make your team laugh.
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And if you have got a bunch of vets that want to go hard in the paint, we can go hard in the paint game has made to turn up to that level. It’s really flexible that way.
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I think this game is going to be really fantastic. I think people are going to really love it. Head over to drandyroark.com right now to learn all about it and get your copy sent to either you or your practice, Let’s get get back into this episode.
Dr. Andy Roark: The other reason I think that you’re so interesting in your career and why I really want to talk to you about reinventing yourself is that you did not have this realization and then go to Indeed.com. And take a job that was posted, like surely you had questions about what this next phase was going to be like, what you were actually going to do, what that experience is going to be like, where did you go?
Like once you had this sort of realization, you’re like, yeah, I need, I need to do this, I need to go somewhere else. What does that look? I think a lot of people. Or maybe even, maybe even having that thought of, I need, I need to do something different. And then they’re just kind of paralyzed and like, they don’t know where to get started.
How did you turn that from this idea into a plan or a path that you were going to follow?
Dr. Sam Morello: Yeah. Well, once I, once I left my, once I left the program that I was at and I, you know, I was trying to finish out some training for residents that I had and, and, and just leaving them in a leaving the program and a stable place where, where they had been put in. Where they were done. I had a little bit of an off ramp.
I had organized some consulting work that I’d be able to do to sort of keep me afloat as I tried to search out What that next thing would be because I did not have a solid You know a solid Job or plan for what the next role would be. I didn’t step immediately into the job that I have now I just knew that I needed to go and find you know what that what that next job would be or what
Dr. Andy Roark: You left, you left before you had the next thing you had. Like, so you had, like I said, an off ramp. I think that’s good. You got some stuff lined up, but, but you were like, no, I’m, I’m going to go out into the world and then find the path.
Dr. Sam Morello: Yeah. And I knew I wanted a little bit of, you know, time sort of, outside academia out in the world to just I did a bit of consulting I worked in some different spaces. I continued to do some research and, and really I was very focused on whatever it was I was looking for.
And and so that’s the big thing, right? So first was really distilling down what it was I was looking for. And I and I knew I had a sense of what it was, but being able to focus down on what the big objectives were and some of those, you know, had to do with my own life, right? Some of those were very focused on what I wanted professionally.
Objectives for how I wanted to work, but also what I wanted to accomplish in work. Again, getting back to some of what we talked about that I had learned through doing that research, goals to be able to support people in the profession and to be able to have some impact on the profession at scale.
And that’s, that’s vague, right? And that’s not what most jobs are like. So I knew that that wasn’t going to just appear out of nowhere. Although in some ways it did eventually, but not immediately. And so that was, that was a guiding goal. And then I, and then I, I, I took, I took time and really tried to distill down some other not too many because if that list is too long, you’re never going to, you know, you’re never going to meet it, but some things that were extremely important to me as far as work environment or, or how I was going to work and, and, and the type of work it would be, but then also things about my own You know, life and quality of life.
I had, I had spent many years moving around for resident internship, residency, and then my academic career, I was far away from family and had been for a long time you know, with, with family getting, getting quite a bit older. And, and I had some goals for my own personal life as well that I, I prioritize very specific ones and that, and so I had a couple real non negotiables and there were very few, because again, you have to be careful when you do that, but, but creating that list of priorities and, deciding, okay, you’re going to stick to them.
And so as there, there would be opportunities that came my way. And I would, even in times that I was starting to feel stressed and nervous about, well, what’s the next thing going to be, when is it going to come? Should I, should I just sort of like cut my losses and, and do this or that? I just kind of thought back to, no, I, I have some real objectives.
I have some real goals and, and, and I know what it is that I, I’m after. This is about, again, not running away, but running towards something. I had spent really many years crafting skills and objectives and, and, and really understanding what I wanted around. And the other thing that I did is, you know, I spent some time looking at my own CV, which was an academic CV, which can be really, really obnoxious, honestly.
Most people don’t want to look at those things, but two of my, one of my dearest friends from college had gone from being a PhD to working in startups. And, and then my brother actually had gone from being a, being a PhD and postdoc to working in business. And so they were both really great at looking at resumes from, or in CVs, even academic CVs from a skill based perspective and learning how to see, you know, where I wrote.
Like, you know, I took care of ponies for the last 20 years, right? And, and seeing, seeing what, what the skills were in some of the things that I was doing where I had begun to see myself as in some places very narrowly skilled, right? Or that, that, that I only had a few things that I was able to do as an equine surgeon.
And they really helped me to identify some great strengths and areas that I could showcase myself. And that was, that was really game changing for me. Actually. I rewrote my resume and, and I also sort of rewrote my own concept of myself and what I had to offer. And when I actually did. I didn’t go on Indeed, but when I actually did even look outside the veterinary profession at some point and found an opportunity that really met all my criteria, it was in an entirely non veterinary space at a, at a big global really high level consulting company.
And I, I, I interviewed and got offered a really competitive job because of some of the support they had given me and the way I had been able to navigate some of, you know, the research that you saw me do and some of the other skills that had helped me show how to showcase into, you know, what ended up being a great back and forth and, and, and, and interview.
And so I learned a lot about myself and what we can actually show other people we can do as veterinarians and the skills that we learn and we grow in our hospitals and in our clinics. And even as we organize and demonstrate leadership and demonstrate some of that entrepreneurial skill where we need to learn new things because we need to solve problems that we, you know, that, that arise in, in our everyday
lives as practitioners, as researchers, as administrators in our hospitals and our schools. and people can see us for things beyond what we think we are. And that was massively helpful for me.
Dr. Andy Roark: If I was telling this story, I think, I think the symbolism of you rewriting your resume is, is, is important. I think that’d be a thing I would lean into in telling the story in that I, it, I’ve seen this before in that, you know, when you’re in vet medicine, you look at yourself in a certain way and you judge yourself based on how your colleagues judge you.
But when you step outside, that’s not how the rest of the world judges you. And the skills that we don’t even think about, they can be really meaningful to other people. And so, I, to me, it’s sort of the hero’s journey, that sort of seems like the recreation step right there is when you say, I had to learn to look at myself in a way that was not the way that I had previously done.
And then the act of rewriting the resume in that way was really kind of the reinvention, if you will, in that way, I think it’s, it’s important. I fully believe that the first time, the first time I would have rewritten my resume. Academic CV, it would have just been a different version of my academic CV.
I would have written it repeatedly using the same words, and it would have taken something significant to shake me and make me say, look, none of this is usable. Like you have got to step away and get fresh perspective and eyes and look at this. What do you wish you knew? If you could whisper something back to yourself as you were kind of leaving Your faculty job and going out.
Is there anything that you wish you knew at the beginning? I said, I think it was interesting. I was sure that you had times that you questioned if this was the right decision and you spoke to that a little bit. And so knowing that you’re going to go into that, what, like, what would you, what advice would you have given to yourself?
Dr. Sam Morello: Honestly, I think that I would have told myself that There’s not going to be a misstep here that you just need to, I took my own advice already, even though I didn’t know it back then, which is just keep, you know, keep, keep believing in why you did this and keep, keep moving towards that.
I have to say. That one benefit I have that I, that I, that I don’t think everybody will have is that I didn’t have the responsibility of having like young children who were reliant on me. Right. I, I, I actually had quite a, quite a reasonable income through all this from the consulting work I was doing.
It was fine. It was not what my income had been before or after, but it was entirely reasonable. But there were, you know, you don’t know when you’re doing consulting work, what it’s going to be from month to month, right. Or, or, or, or, or sometimes even more acutely. And there are people that can’t take risks like that.
And it was a risk for me. It was very much a risk. And I lit, you know, I, between my, between the, my risk tolerance and being able to live off some savings. I was able to do that and not everybody can do that. And so the pieces of advice are know your risk tolerance and also know who the friends you have are going to be that you can talk to at your worst moments, because there were a couple, there were a couple of really, really wonderful people who I wasn’t sure, you know, in my professional life who I wasn’t sure
what they were going to say when I said, I’m quitting surgery, right? I’m not quitting is the wrong word when I’m moving away from surgery and It was a little intimidating talking to my surgeon friends and some of them ended up being just the most wonderful parts of that experience. They were the most supportive. They talked the most about how you know, how many times they had thought about making a change acknowledging how hard it was and how, you know, brave they thought I was for doing it.
And it was that sort of support and being able to talk to them and making sure that you can identify those people and, you know, and know who they’re going to be for you that, that was, that was huge. And, and the fact that I, at any moment. Had been hesitant to, to talk to them about it is now, you know, crazy to me cause they were, you know, they, they, they, they, they were all just spectacular.
And I’m, I’m lucky to have had, you know, so many friends and colleagues like that.
Dr. Andy Roark: Dr. Sam Morrell, thanks so much for being here. Where can people find you online?
Dr. Sam Morello: Oh, my, my LinkedIn profile. I’m, I’m, I’m pretty boring on social media, but my LinkedIn profile is the best to probably get me. So yeah, find me
Dr. Andy Roark: I will put a link there for those who want to track you down and say, hello. Thank you for being here, guys. Thanks for tuning in. Listen, everybody take care of yourselves.
and that’s what I got for you guys. Thanks for being here. Thanks to Dr Sam Morello guys, if you enjoyed this episode share with your friends or leave me an honest review wherever you get your podcast. It’s how people find us. It always means a lot to me. Anyway, gang take care of yourselves. Be well. I’ll talk to you later on.
