Kelsey Carpenter reflects on her journey outside of veterinary medicine and how it changed her perspective on success. Together, Kelsey Carpenter and Dr. Andy Roark discuss the many opportunities for growth that exist outside of our careers and how they both found joy in climbing their second mountains.
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LINKS
Kelsey Beth Carpenter on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kelseybethcarpenter/
Uncharted on the Road: https://unchartedvet.com/on-the-road/
Charming the Angry Client Course: https://drandyroark.com/charming-the-angry-client/
Dr. Andy Roark Swag: https://drandyroark.com/store/
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Kelsey Beth Carpenter is a Registered Veterinary Technician, social media manager, singer/songwriter, speaker/performer, and content creator. Kelsey has enjoyed working in emergency hospitals across California for over a decade. At her most recent clinic, she fell in love with the open hospital concept, and is passionate about teaching others how to implement this structure in their own practices. Kelsey also works as the Social Media Manager for DrAndyRoark.com, a Content Specialist for the Uncharted Veterinary Conferences and Community, and the manager of her own growing brand, previously under the name Vet Tech Kelsey. With a background in the arts, Kelsey is passionate about the power of creativity, the importance of humor, and the magic that happens when art and science overlap. In her free time (what’s that?), she can be found hiking, writing goofy songs about Veterinary Medicine, and dressing up her Chihuahua even though she swore she would never be “that person”.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Dr Andy Roark: Welcome everybody to the Cone of Shame Veterinary Podcast. I am your host Dr. Andy Roark, guys I am here with the one and only Kelsey Beth Carpenter, formerly Vet Tech Kelsey. I wanted to talk to her about a little bit of what’s going on in her life And she dropped the bomb on me at the beginning that she’s not Vet Tech Kelsey anymore and we talked about why that was and then we talked about having one foot in the grave outside of that medicine and what that looks like and it was a really great conversation about how we define ourselves in medicine, how we fall deeply passionately in love with medicine and sometimes we can fall back out of love and that’s not bad and honestly for a lot of us it is not bad. For a lot of us, it is destined to happen. We are going to fall back out of love with vet medicine. That’s not failure, that’s just part of the process. So anyway that’s what we’re talking about today is, finding that balance, identifying ourselves as someone who’s a side of vet medicine, who’s who does vet medicine, but not, maybe it is that medicine.
We, we talk a lot about that. We talk about it from a social media sort of public figure standpoint. And then we talk about it from the practice standpoint and just how we set up our friendships and our relationships and how we feel about the fact that sometimes we’re more into our profession than other times.
So anyway, that’s it. That’s the conversation and it is a really good one. Kelsey is amazing. Guys, I hope you enjoy it. Let’s get into it.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: (singing) This is your show. We’re glad you’re here. We want to help you in your veterinary career. Welcome to the Cone of Shame with Dr. Andy Roark.
Dr Andy Roark: Welcome to the podcast, Kelsey Beth Carpenter RVT. How are you?
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: I’m pretty darn good. How are you, Dr. Andy Roark?
Dr Andy Roark: I am good. Thanks for coming on and chatting with me. I always enjoy having you on the podcast. I always enjoy our talks in general. for those who don’t know you, you are you often go by Vet Tech Kelsey in the online world and you have, you’ve worked with me for, we’re getting close to 10 years at this point,
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: Too long.
Dr Andy Roark: Too long. Yeah. Yeah.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: No, you know what? This is a side note, but I actually got rid of the Vettech Kelsey name recently. I went back to my name.
Dr Andy Roark: Did you really?
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: And I just felt like it was like, kind of, you know what? I don’t want to pigeonhole myself into being all about vet medicine all the time. I just want to be Kelsey Beth Carpenter, who’s also an RVT and also does other stuff. You know?
Dr Andy Roark: What’s the process for backing out of an internet name? Like if I if, Dr. Sue Cancer Vet wanted to give that up, like what kind of process would she have to go through? Is there paperwork?
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: I’m claiming that name immediately.
Dr Andy Roark: Yeah, oh yeah!
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: I’m now Dr. Sue Cancer Vet. me up.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter, Cancer Vet. None of that is true. Okay. wait, so, so why did you make that decision? So you were like, hey, I’ve been doing, I’ve been Kelsey Beth Carpenter on Instagram and Facebook and like, got YouTube videos and people know me. And then you just, like, you just didn’t want to do, are you trying to do other things?
Did you feel like you were tied to that medicine in an unhealthy way? Like, what was the process for that?
I think it was just there was a period of my life where vet medicine was my entire life, for I think everyone’s gone through some period with vet meds their whole life. Now my life has changed and there’s other things going on And I was feeling like I had pigeonholed myself into Only being able to show up on social media as vet tech whereas be able to share other parts of my life and not feel like Being a Vet Tech is my entire identity, it’s only part my identity.
And I think like the, as silly as it is, the handle you use on social media does kind of represent a little bit of what you’re doing. And I was like, I’m going back to my name. Cause I feel like I have more, I’ve given myself permission to be more than just a Vet Tech. I can be a Vet Tech in other things.
Dr Andy Roark: Yeah. It’s funny how we sort of define ourselves, you know, and like how we look at ourselves. And yeah, I thought about that a lot with, sort of, Dr. Andy Roark, sort of as a brand. I was at the VMX conference, this was years ago, and I was sitting there with this guy who was a mentor of mine, and he was just a guy I really respect a lot.
And he’s just, he’s done all the things in vet medicine. And, you know, we were there and we’re at this conference and there were just people streaming by and everything, and we were sort of talking and he said, you know, Andy, I’m gonna be done soon. And I was like, what does that look like?
And he’s like, I’m just going to go play music. We’re just going to go play music. And I was like, really? So it’s like, you’re not going to, are you going to come back here? And he was like, no, man, when I’m out. And he said, all this is fake. And I said, what do you mean? It’s all fake.
And he was like, you know, you see these conferences, you see all the hustle and bustle and everybody, you know, tells you that you’re greater. Everybody tells you that you, your work really matters and things like that. But if you disappeared. Everything would just keep, it would just keep rolling and so he was like, I’m going to be done and I’m, you’re not going to see me anymore.
I’m going to, I’m going to be with my family. I’ll be with my grandkids. I’m going to play my music and that’s what I’m going to, what I’m going to be. And I’ve never forgotten him saying, This is all fake. And it was really fascinating. ’cause I thought a lot about that because, you know, in my career I’ve hustled so hard for so long to, to be, Hey, I hate to say that
you try to be relevant. You know what I mean? But I have, I’ve just, I didn’t, there was a time, to your point earlier when almost my entire friend group was in vet medicine. Like, you know what I mean? Almost my entire friend group and for him to be like, this is all fake. And like, they would, if you dipped out, they would have another doctor in a week, you know what I mean?
They would. I don’t, I didn’t see it as cynical when he said it, you know what I mean? But I did, kind of feel as honest. Yeah, it was funny. I said that to someone else and she was like, well, our relationship is not fake. And I think that’s very true too. And so, But I do think that you can balance those things of saying I love what I do in vet medicine and I love the relationships I have with people and also this would all go on without me and you know what I mean?
It’s not going to stop without me and so I shouldn’t stop without it. You know what I mean? Meaning I, I should be able to go and do the things I want to do. So that was that.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: I partially agree and partially disagree only because I very much disappeared for a good while there. When I first developed my fibromyalgia and I was really sick, I pretty much disappeared. And even now I rarely post on social media anymore. And yet I still have maintained numerous of My connections, people that I did not know before I was Vet tech Kelsey on social media.
But I think what it came down to was I like the perspective of sort of, If no one knew me anymore, if everyone forgot about me, what would I want to be doing? And I think what I would want to be doing is I still would want to have one very firm foot in Vet Med and posting about Vet Med, but I also would want to be talking about other things as well.
If no one was listening to anything I’m posting, what do I want to post? And that’s what it came down to for me, I think.
Dr Andy Roark: I like that question of, you know, if no one else was watching, what would I want to be doing? I think that, I think if you can get into that headspace and then you make the decision that I would want to do vet medicine, I think that’s a really powerful thing because it’s, a difference in, in feeling like you made a choice versus you had no choice.
You were, you were stuck in the web. You were tied into what was going on. I do think that’s really true. One of the things that I think freed me up a lot in my career is having a couple of friends who just left vet medicine and then came back, later on. So, I had two people come to mind, the first one is like the speaking stuff that I do.
I always felt like I was on the hamster wheel. And if I stopped, you know, going to conferences or writing or doing these things, then everything would fall apart in that regard. And that would just, that door would slam in my face and I would not be able to do it. And then Sean McVeigh who’s a practice management speaker and a really dynamic speaker.
He was one of the best known speakers in practice management for years and years. And then he decided that he was going to only work for one company basically at their events. And he left and he just only spoke with him and he was gone for like five years and I had numerous times I thought along the way, wow, Sean has gone off.
He’s doing this other thing. If he wanted to come back, would people be happy to see him? Would opportunities exist for him? And the answer was, absolutely. Like, at least as many opportunities as you had before. I think people would be like, wow, you’ve taken, you’ve gone away, you’ve done some things, you’ve refreshed yourself, and now you’re coming back with new ideas and perspectives and things like that.
And you’ve chosen to do this. I think it would be, I think it’d be even more You know, opportunities for him and I don’t know that if I did not see him sort of go through that. And say, wow, you really can put things down and walk away and come back and they’ll still be there. I don’t know that I would have been able to make that choice from a practice standpoint.
I had more than one friend who was a practicing veterinarian who left and went into industry, whether it was pharma or diagnostics or whatever. And they would go and they would do work in industry as a technical services vet, which is, which has got their hands in the profession, but it’s not in the exam room seeing appointments is a different thing.
but I had a couple of friends who would go and they did it for three or five years and then they decided they wanted to own their own practice and went back and fired it back up. And I just, those people, I’m so glad I had those interactions with those people because I didn’t. I don’t know that I really believed that you could just put it down until I saw them, you know, and that that was a big thing in my life.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: Yeah. I don’t know if all industries are that way, but that’s been my experience is that Vet Med will always make space for me. And I think that’s the case for everyone.
Dr. Andy Roark: Hey guys, you know, probably the number one plea for help that I get from medical directors, from practice managers, from practice owners, from lead technicians, and especially lead CSRs is, “Hey, Andy, help me, help my staff to deal with angry and complaining clients. They need ways to help these people because angry clients, complaining clients, they need help is what they need. And, our people aren’t empowered or they aren’t trained in how to do that.”
And so why isn’t there more training for this? Why aren’t there more resources that make teams good at dealing with angry and complaining clients?
Well, the number one reason really is, the way that feels natural for your team, the skills that they have that they would bring into the situation, they’re different in every practice. So there’s not a bullet pointed. This is how you do it way.
Which is why I end up in this place where people are like, “Andy How do I do this?”
Listen, I made a course it’s called ‘Charming the Angry Client’ and it is my course meant for teams or groups to work together on all about dealing with angry and complaining clients.
I use what’s called the Davidow model of organizational response, which is a super peer reviewed, empirically tested way of addressing angry and complaining clients.
And, I break it up into pieces so that it’s easy to digest. You can scatter it across a number of meetings, it is made to be watched with a couple people together. And then there’s discussion questions about how do we do this in our practice? What does this look like for us? What, when, think about a time that this happened and we saw it. How did we handle it?
Ooh, I also put a bunch of example videos in there of me being an angry client. So I will just give it to ya. As here’s Andy with his pet, and he is upset, and then you can pause it, and then you can talk about right there, “What would we do with this? How would we handle this, guys?” And it is a great, low stakes way of getting your team to talk about what they would actually do.
Guys, there’s nothing more powerful than your team. Talking about what they would actually do and comparing notes, sitting and getting lectured at is nothing close to your team, whether it’s just your CSRs, whether it’s four of your technicians working together, whether it’s a whole staff meeting and a manager or owner or medical director leading the meeting and being the facilitator guys, I put a whole facilitator guide in there too. There is a whole hour long broken up in a module section on how to run an active training program using this course.
And that’s all laid out there and how I do it, how I work with big groups, how it works, small groups, all that information is there. Anyway, it’s called Charming the Angry Client. It is on the Dr. Andy Roark website. I’ll put links directly to it in the show notes. Guys, I hope you will enjoy it.
I think it’s really valuable. It is honestly the most popular course I have ever put online. Grab yourself a copy. I hope you’ll get a lot out of it.
Let’s get back to this episode.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: Yeah. I don’t know if all industries are that way, but that’s been my experience is that Vet Med will always make space for me. And I think that’s the case for everyone.
Dr Andy Roark: I think our industry is weird. I don’t think people are like, if I quit waiting tables, are they ever gonna let me back into Olive Garden? I don’t know, you know, I don’t, I can’t, so I’ll walk that back and say other industries I think they have like advanced training. I think there’s, I think there’s probably some truth to that and I think it would be really hard to go to vet school and then immediately leave because you haven’t like, you know, trained that knowledge into muscle memory.
I think that would be very hard. But I suspect that the other I think, a lot of people struggle just to get off the treadmill in general, you know what I mean? So my wife is a college professor and she’s amazing. She’s absolutely amazing. And she has always wanted to work. Her career has always been important and like I’ve always supported her in that regard because she’s amazing.
And also, especially in academia, she’s gone through, she’s gotten tenure, all of, she’s done all the things. And so, but, I do think that there’s definitely a piece of it where she feels very much like she has sunk so much into this. I don’t know that she feels freedom to be like, nah, I think I’m gonna, I think I’m gonna take a couple years off.
I don’t know that those cards are open to podcast here talking about self identity.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: I loved that episode. I loved that episode. And I cracked up out loud multiple times.
Dr Andy Roark: She is amazing. She left two tenure track jobs.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter:Yep. Incredible.
Dr Andy Roark: I’m like, just the, God, the guts that she has is just amazing, like she is inspiring to me.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: Yep. But I think that’s exactly, it is, it’s often not the experiences I’ve had in vet med that make me the best technician, like it’s my experiences outside of veterinary medicine that give me perspective that is valuable within veterinary medicine. And I think, like Dr. Sarah Boston is like a perfect example of that.
She’s got all this experience outside of veterinary medicine as well. And it makes her that much more incredible of a doctor. I mean, you too, like a lot of the stuff you talk about, you’re not just reading veterinary books or veterinary articles or going and doing veterinary things. Like a lot of the value you bring to veterinary medicine is from your experiences outside of it.
Dr Andy Roark: Well, thanks for saying that. But I think, you’re spot on too, in that, like, I mean, just, think about for a second, what really makes people into the people that they are, it’s just like, I think. I think things like maybe getting married but I think experience is like having children and, like, that will teach you a new level of organization that I don’t know, you know, otherwise for me, improv comedy was such a massive impact on my skills and approach to the exam room.
I mean, it’s just, I can’t explain how much I got from doing this weird hobby. And bringing it back into the medical realm, but it’s just the way I listen to people, the way I talk to people, the way that I look at problems and without panicking, you know, things like that. It’s just all that stuff came from telling jokes with other people on a stage.
And it’s hard to convince people of that sometimes. I really learned this. I mean, how many of us picked up projects and learned? Patience from painting, you know what I mean? Just being like, well, I used to be, I used to be so much more high, you know, high strung. And I learned that, you know, or we learn to meditate or we get to do yoga and we bring this back as part of our practice and mindfulness in the practice.
And again, it doesn’t have to be about wellness, but really anything in the way that you organize your thoughts, the way you treat people, all that stuff comes from outside of practice. I think when you get into practice and, you go in. You go to the same building every day, you punch the same clock every day, you talk to the same people every day, the pet owners rotate through the same rooms in front of you every day.
I do think it’s easy to get stale. I really think that perspective, I mean, it’s the same thing with international travel. You know, people go and travel to different cultures. It’ll change your life. It’ll change your perspective. But you’ll bring that stuff back in, like, I don’t know, maybe you’ll look at people and their relationships with their pets a little bit differently.
Maybe you’ll see cultural differences a little differently than you did before. But I think that whole stepping outside of vet medicine, I think that makes a ton of sense. But I think it’s, I think it’s wildly underrated.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: Yeah, I think it was, I think one of the biggest lessons I’ve taken in recent years was that one of the things I would do differently if I had to go back is not dive quite so deep into veterinary medicine in the beginning. Because it was so exciting. We love it so much. It’s so easy to just commit your entire life.
But when I was single. I didn’t have any kids. Like I could just commit all this time to veterinary medicine. And that’s great. But it then limited how much I was growing in other ways
Dr Andy Roark: Yeah, but could you do that though? Like could you because I again I fall hard like when I fall hard. Like when I got into improv, I was all into improv until my wife was like we have children. And you need to come home. Like you can’t be a Can’t be, at bars every night making people laugh.
I was like, I get it. Like, but you know what I mean? Like, yeah. when you get into vet medicine and it’s all new and it’s exciting and the people are new and excited. Like, I, I don’t, I, I would never have the discipline to not fall in love with something at the beginning. I think. I think that, I think the thing that I have had to learn in my life is that you can fall in love with the thing and then slowly kind of fall back out of it, but not all the way out of it.
Like, you can, you know what I mean? You can be all about dance class and then, just decide you’re going to dance once a week, you know, and that’s going to be fine. And it doesn’t have to go anywhere. I think that’s, I think that’s fine. I think a lot of us. feel like if we’re not as in love with the thing or we’re not as invested or involved or putting the time into the thing as we did in the past, that means that we’re burning out or that we’re failing or that we’re not as committed as we used to be.
I think that’s just a weird way of thinking about it.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: Oh, I think about,now these days, I think about it like a relationship. You get in a relationship, you may fall very hard, but you don’t want to cut off every other part of your life because the second you get in a fight in that relationship You have nothing else to turn to and that’s when you hit a low spot. And so if you keep your friendships and your hobbies and all these things your life is more diverse. If one thing goes wrong in your relationship, you still have all these other positive things and same with vet med You’re gonna have a bad day in vet med. But if you have an improv class coming up There’s still something positive to bring you up. If you have a bad day in improv, you might have a good day in vet medicine. You know, like just not putting All the way there.
It helped me love veterinary medicine more, I feel like.
Dr Andy Roark: Yeah. Oh, it’s not putting all your eggs in one basket. It’s not like this thing defines me. I think that’s really interesting. It’s interesting that you made that sort of adjustment on social media and kind of opened the, you know, opened, open yourself back up that way. But I do think that it’s funny.
There’s such sort of an arms race of who’s the biggest Doctor of the doctors, you know what I mean? Like I’m more doctory than you are. And that’s why I’m going to, I don’t know. That’s why my opinion should matter more and that’s, I don’t know. It’s funny. I actually just, I just talked to a specialist and this person was, you know, boarded and just this incredible pedigree.
And it was funny because we were literally talking about still this person feeling intimidated by people who were I don’t know, the farther, farther along in the hierarchy, you know what I mean, of their specialty and being like, I don’t know, it’s intimidating to deal with them, but I’m like, you have all the degrees and they were like, yeah, but still, you know, it’s intimidating.
And it’s just funny that like, we get into this race of like, I’m more into it than you are. I think that’s true for any hobby. You know what I mean? if you, my wife used to work at a scuba store, like, doing scuba dive rentals and stuff. And she would talk about these people who would come in.
I don’t know if they actually did any scuba diving or not, but they owned all the equipment and they talked about it constantly, but it was like, I have no idea that people actually went scuba diving or not, but they were like, Boy, they would sit in the scuba store and just tell stories and talk about the latest equipment, you know, and I go, I guess I, I see that in vet medicine too, if that makes sense.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: I think one of the biggest pieces of wisdom that I’ve gained in my 30s has been that growing up, I wanted the biggest life I could make. I wanted to be famous. I wanted to be the best at everything. I wanted to have everything. I wanted to do everything. I wanted to, like, you know, I wanted it all. And I think in my 30s is when I realized, like, I don’t want that at all.
I think I thought I was supposed to want that and now you know, what I really want is a very small, very joy filled, very simple life. I just want to fill my life with things that make me happy And I don’t that means I don’t have to be the best at them like I can be a vet tech and be enjoying myself in whatever capacity I am a vet tech, and I don’t have to be the best vet tech to like completely enjoy it in some ways.
We were just talking before we started recording about, you know, starting new hobbies and being bad at them. Like in some ways it’s more enjoyable to not be the best and to stop running that race. Like it makes life more fun and more free. And yeah, I just want a very quiet, simple, just happy life now.
Dr Andy Roark: Yeah. I think most of us run into that probably in our thirties. It happened for me in my thirties. Right, right, right when I turned 40. That’s when I slammed into it. There’s this guy, he’s a columnist. His name is David Brooks, and he’s got a book. It’s called The Second Mountain, and I really liked it.
I thought it was really good, I thought it was a good idea. It’s not a great book, but it’s a good idea. And so, basically, his idea, Kelsey, is like, is to He says that when we’re brought up, we’re shown the first mountain. And this first mountain is the type of material success that you’re talking about.
it’s attention, it’s wealth, it’s, you know, career success. it’s what, whatever the thing is in your mind, that is the big, flashy, glamorous thing that you think you need to have. And we all charge and start climbing this mountain. And at one point, one of two things happens to us. We either just kind of Don’t get there and we’re like, well, this sucks, you know, like this or You do get there you climb to the top of that mountain or up near the top of that mountain. But in either case regardless of who you are at some point you realize This isn’t what it’s all about and like it doesn’t really matter.
I don’t I wish there was a way for people to recognize that mountain
Is– it just doesn’t matter without spending 30 years of their life trying to climb it. I don’t know that there is you tell people but like anyway I had like I had to burn out and just be like this is terrible and I’m running on this treadmill and like It’s just not rewarding and I don’t know what I got from our work.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: I remember you telling a story about how one of the things that you thought you wanted, or that you were supposed to want, was to open your own practice. And it was your wife who talked the sense into you and said, It’s the middle of the afternoon and you’re hanging out in the pool. you want to get rid of that? That you’re not happy with that life?
Dr Andy Roark: I felt, yeah, I felt like I was supposed to own a business that had a big, that had employees and had a big building around it. And yeah, I had a great thing going and all I could think of was like, yeah, but this isn’t the, this isn’t the mountain that I had decided was so great.
So anyway, in the book, he said, he says the second mountain is, this is, interconnectivity. After you try to climb the first mountain, you realize that what really matters is how you’re connected to other people and the relationships that you have. So anyway, I’ve always, it’s stuck with me forever, but I really liked that a lot, but, well, Kelsey, I really appreciate you being here.
Thanks for talking through with me about, you know, getting out of that medicine and what it means to be in vet medicine versus what it means to be a person as like, I don’t know touching that medicine adjacent to that medicine. I don’t know.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: I don’t know. Doing the wave into vet medicine.
Dr Andy Roark: Doing it, and then it comes back. Yeah, it comes back the other way. That’s it. All right. Thanks for being here, Kelsey. Thanks for listening to everybody. Take care of yourselves. And that’s what I got for you guys. That’s the episode. Thanks so much to Kelsey Beth Carpenter for being here. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did leave us an honest review, wherever you get your podcast or send it to a friend, help us get people to know the podcast exists. That’s all I’m asking.
So anyway, gang, take care of yourselves. Talk to you later. Bye.
