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Vet Tech Life

Master’s Degrees, Mid Level Practitioners, and the Future of Veterinary Technicians

March 8, 2023 by Andy Roark DVM MS

Dr. Bonnie Price, Director of Lincoln Memorial University’s Master of Veterinary Clinical Care Program, joins the podcast to discuss LMU’s new master’s program for technicians, its objectives and the pushback against the program. Dr. Price and Dr. Andy Roark also discuss the current state of technician credentialing and what the future looks like for the technician profession.

Cone Of Shame Veterinary Podcast · COS – 188 – Master's Degrees, Mid Level Practitioners, And The Future Of Veterinary Technicians

You can also listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Soundcloud, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts!

LINKS

LMU Master’s of Veterinary Clinical Care: https://www.lmunet.edu/college-of-veterinary-medicine/academics/graduate-studies/master-of-veterinary-clinical-care

Dr. Andy Roark Exam Room Communication Tool Box Team Training Course: https://drandyroark.com/on-demand-staff-training/

Dr. Andy Roark Charming the Angry Client Team Training Course: https://drandyroark.com/charming-the-angry-client/

Dr. Andy Roark Swag: drandyroark.com/shop

All Links: linktr.ee/DrAndyRoark

ABOUT OUR GUEST

Dr. Bonnie Price has worked in veterinary education eight years and currently serves as the Director of Lincoln Memorial University’s Master of Veterinary Clinical Care Program, the first MS program in the US designed specifically for credentialed veterinary technicians to build on the knowledge and skills learned in AVMA CVTEA accredited programs. Dr. Price is the former chair of the LMU’s Department of Veterinary Health Science and Technology at LMU and led the department through curriculum revisions, new program development, and enrollment growth.

Dr. Price has lectured for undergraduates, graduate, and professional students across multiple disciplines (including veterinary technology, pre-vet, pre-med, nursing, conservation biology, master’s students, medical students, and veterinary students) with the goal of creating interdisciplinary collaborations and developing leadership skills very early in students’ training.

Before training in veterinary public health, they completed their undergraduate work in anthropology and biochemistry and participated in primate fieldwork and conservation studies throughout Central America and West Africa, which fostered a strong commitment to culturally competent and multidisciplinary approaches to improve health and wellness at the interface of animals, humans, and the environment.

Dr. Price serves on the Board of Directors for Pawsibilities VetMed, which aims to actively increase the diversity of the veterinary profession based on gender, race, ethnicity, non-traditional career path, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, religion, disability status, and veteran status through a novel pipeline approach to recruitment and retention.

Dr. Price is also an active member of PrideVMC’s Mentorship Working Group and DEI Working Group, which exists to promote and uphold PrideVMC’s commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion among its members, the larger LGBTQ+ community, the field of veterinary medicine, and all communities served by veterinary medicine.

Dr. Price earned a BS in Biochemistry, a BA in Anthropology, and a DVM and MPH from the University of TN.


EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

This podcast transcript is made possible thanks to a generous gift from Banfield Pet Hospital, which is striving to increase accessibility and inclusivity across the veterinary profession. Click here to learn more about Equity, Inclusion & Diversity at Banfield.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome everybody to the Cone of Shame Veterinary Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Andy Roark. Guys, I’m here today with the one and only Dr. Bonnie Price. She is the Director of the Technician Master’s Program as it’s informally known at LMU. Man, this is a lightning rod program. A lot of people have a lot of strong feelings about this, about a technician master’s degree. Why are we doing this? What does it allow technicians to do? Is this the path to the mid-level practitioner? Do we need to stop it before that happens?
I get her in and ask her really hard questions, and we talk about a lot of things. We talk about where the program came from. We talk about what someone would do with a master’s that they get after being a credentialed technician. We talk about the return on investment on a master’s like this, and then we get into the mid-level practitioners and we talk about what that looks like and where we are in that debate as a profession and how a master’s program like this would fit into mid-level practitioners if they were to come around.
So guys, I think for those of you who watch the industry and think about the future, I think there’s a lot of meat for you to stick your teeth into if you’re into meat. Otherwise, a lot of audio tofu if you’re into that, but there’s a lot here. That’s what I’m saying. There’s a lot here that I think you guys will enjoy. So let’s get into this episode.

Kelsey Beth Carpenter:
(singing) This is your show. We’re glad you’re here. We want to help you in your veterinary career. Welcome to The Cone of Shame with Dr. Andy Roark.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Bonnie Price.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Oh, man. It’s my pleasure. So you and I are just meeting for the first time. I am so glad to get to meet you. My friend Bob Lester, Dr. Lester, who’s been on the podcast a number of times, he speaks so highly of you. I am so interested in technicians, obviously, in technician job tracks and in accessibility of care. Boy, you’re doing something really interesting that I want to talk about.
So for those who don’t know you, you are an Associate Professor of Vet Medicine at LMU, which is Lincoln Memorial University, and you are the Director of their Master’s of Veterinary Clinical Care, which is some people are calling it the Technician Master’s degree, something like that. I want to talk to you about what that is because I have heard things I think are true. I’ve heard things I think are not true. I just want to sort this out with you and understand what’s going on.
So let me start. I want to start really broad and just say to you, I’m looking at our profession and the biggest problem that I’m seeing right now is a labor shortage, specifically in veterinarians. I know I’m vet-centered because I am a practicing veterinarian, but I look around and I say, “Guys, we got too many cases. We got more cases than we can see and we have technicians who want to do more and they would like to earn a living wage, which seems reasonable to me.” So this feels like a problem that has a fairly straightforward answer in my mind when I say, “We’ve got more work we need to do. We’ve got people who want to do more work, and we’ve got people who would like to earn more salary.” That seems reasonable to me and paints a picture of where I think our profession should go. How do you feel when I say that? Does that line up with what you’re looking at? Am I off base? Talk to me about how you see technicians in our profession right now.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Okay. So yeah, I agree with everything you just said. The one thing I don’t know if I agree with is the straightforward solution. So I think that the problem becomes a lot more complicated when we start looking at all the pieces. So we’ve got this-

Dr. Andy Roark:
Let’s do this. You’re so right, and I’m here for this. Let’s do it.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Okay. So I think we definitely have a workforce shortage. I’m not sure why, but there is some disagreement among some professionals saying that, but I don’t think there should be. I think maybe overall, maybe we have enough veterinarians to cover the needs of the country, but then when we start looking at the places where we need veterinarians, we don’t necessarily have them, right? We definitely don’t have an enough technicians. We’re in a situation where a lot of practices are using veterinary assistants to do technician work.
So we definitely don’t have enough credentialed technicians. We’ve got credentialed technicians leaving the profession and really high numbers. I’ve read lots of different statistics, but some of them say that the average lifespan of a technician in their profession is seven years. They become credentialed technicians, they leave within seven years.
So I think that when we start to pull apart the threads, what are the problems that we’re seeing? There’s a lot. So we’ve got this issue of what’s the scope of practice of technicians and how is that scope of practice protected state to state. So are technicians the only ones able to do technician work? No, in most states, no. Is the title of technician protected in most states? No. Is there a requirement to be a credentialed technician? In many states, no. So we’ve got this mess of veterinary technology that I think veterinarians are to blame. I think we can say that because we’re both nuts, right, Andy?

Dr. Andy Roark:
“I think it’s your fault, Roark.” That’s what I heard.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
A lot of the power in this profession is in the hands of veterinarians.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Oh, yeah.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
So we really need to understand what’s going on with technicians so that we can start solving this problem and then give the power to them, right? So once we figure out what’s going on, help them, give the power to them to do with their profession what they want to do. That’s how I feel about it.
So I guess I think the best thing to do, and maybe we start with what this master’s program is that we’ve made. So you mentioned you’ve heard a few things. You’ve heard some things that maybe are true, some things that maybe aren’t true. I think you’ve maybe have heard things that were at one point true and now are no longer true.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. Let me lay this out a little bit. Okay. So now we’ll start to get into it because you already touched on some of the things that I’m talking about. So my understanding is that you guys have rolled out this new master’s program in its, as I’ve heard it called a technician master’s program, but it’s the Master’s of Veterinary Clinical Care. There’s a lot of people who say, “Well, this is a path to a mid-level practitioner,” which is a whole other can of worms, but the idea being this would be something in between credentialed technicians that we have now and veterinarians where this would be the perfect educational path to have technicians that work without supervision from a veterinarian, let’s just say, and all of this is hypothetical, and there’s no legal structure to support this happening or any of those things.
Some people say that this is the path to creating the mid-level practitioners. I think that some people get really bent out of shape when they hear that because they feel like it’s maybe not something that they like and they’re like, “Oh, is this is wedging that door open.” There’s other people who say, “No, this is an advancement of a veterinary technician as a career path.”
Then you hear a lot of the things that you touched on yourself where vet technician credentialing is such a quagmire right now. The whole thing is so messy and bogged down. I think there’s so much frustration. I really think that’s a huge reason why the vet nurse, whether we call technicians nurses or not, it’s a massive ugly debate. I think a lot of it comes down to frustration about licensing and protection of technician abilities and making the certified vet tech position valuable.
So there’s just so much frustration there. The whole thing just devolves into pieces. So that’s the nasty ball that I’m looking at. So yeah, as we start to talk about the master’s program, just start with me at the beginning and just say what’s the goal of a master’s program. Why would we do this? What are we trying to accomplish?

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Okay. Let me start earlier than that. Let me start with before … I came on board as director of this program February 22, 2022. So it was 2/22/22, which is cool start date.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Easy to remember.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
So I’ve been with the program about a year at this point. Our first class started this last fall. So when the program was originally conceived, this was, I mean, really, I think pre-pandemic that people first started talking about this Master’s of Veterinary Clinical Care Program. So that was before I was on board, but I was with LMU. So I did hear a little bit about it, and I was pulled in from time to time because before I took this job, I was the department chair of the undergraduate veterinary programs at LMU, so the pre-vet program and the veterinary technician program.
So the original idea for this program came about at a veterinary innovation council meeting, and some people were talking about workforce shortages, and the idea of a mid-level provider came up. The idea was a mid-level provider could solve a lot of these problems that you brought up right at the start. We’ve got workforce shortage. We need people in to see clients. We need to improve practice efficiency. We need to improve access to care in the profession.
So the mid-level provider was the innovation that came from that meeting. So a number of those people that were involved in that conversation are associated with LMU in different ways, either on the College of Veterinary Medicine Advisory Board, former employees of LMU. So they started saying, “Well, what could LMU do about this?” So they wanted to create a master’s program that was truly more of a mid-level provider when you think of a physician’s assistant kind of thing, right?
So a lot of the early conversations about that program are rooted in that origin. So over time though, it’s evolved. So once I started getting involved, my background is in vet tech education, and so I had some thoughts about where the master’s program should go. I had some concerns. So one of my biggest concerns was that there’s no, as you mentioned, laws to support a scope of practice for a mid-level provider, right? So in every state in the country, the only person that can establish a VCPR is a veterinarian. The only person that can diagnose, prescribe, prognose, perform surgery is a veterinarian. So we can’t create a program for somebody to do those things if they can’t legally do those things.
However, having worked with technicians for about 10 years at an associate’s and bachelor’s level with the undergrad programs, I knew that many of my students were frustrated that they didn’t have more opportunities to advance their education, and having talked with other tech educators, I knew that there was a need for advanced education for technicians.
So veterinary technology is, from an educational perspective, really unusual profession. So veterinary technician programs are accredited by the CVTEA through the AVMA. There’s one set of accreditation standards or skills and knowledge that they need to know, whether it’s associate’s program or a bachelor’s program, there’s one set of skills. Does that make sense?

Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
So there’s no distinction in the accreditation between an associate and a bachelor’s level. So really, if you look at it from that perspective, veterinary technology is a profession made up of individuals with associate level skills and training. That’s unusual for a healthcare profession to only have somebody at that associate level. So we’re starting to see bachelor’s programs. There’s about 28 in the country right now.
So the guidance that they have from the CVTEA is to build on those associate level skills that are accredited, but there’s not a distinct set of bachelor’s level skills the way there is in … If you look at human nursing, there’s a set of things you learn at the associate level. There’s a set of standards at a bachelor’s level, a set at the master’s, a set at the doctoral level. So this to me is interesting.
So then when we start looking at technicians, technicians, I mean, you love technicians as much as I do it sounds like. Technicians are smart and they want to learn more about what they’re doing and they don’t have an opportunity. I know a lot of technicians, including some DBMs that teach in my program that were technicians who wanted to learn more. They didn’t have anything to do, but go to vet school. So I’ve seen really smart technicians, we lose them to vet school.
Over the years being a tech educator, I’ve thought, “What if there was an opportunity for techs that wasn’t going to vet school if they wanted to get a master’s or a doctoral degree?” So that was where I was coming from when I came into these conversations about this program.
So we’ve got this set of things that these guys wanted to do originally, which is improve practice efficiency, improve access to care, and I thought a really strong technician workforce can do that. If we utilize the technicians that we have now to the top of their license and then if we make opportunities for technicians to learn even more knowledge and skill and veterinary technology, scientific theory, medicine, then we can have a really, really strong technician workforce. So we can have tiers. We can have people up to, I mean eventually, I’d love to see a doctoral degree. We’re technicians, but I think we’re there.
It’s like the VTS, so the vet tech specialist. Having more people with more knowledge in their field is only going to improve our profession if then we as the veterinarians use those people. So the first part, my agenda is to create an educational pathway for these technicians that want to learn more about what they’re doing.
Then the second part is to actually teach veterinarians what a technician is, how they’re educated, what they can do. So the second thing that I’m doing at LMU is I’m actually going to start teaching in the veterinarian curriculum talking about those things, who is a vet tech, how are they educated, what are the skills they know, how do you use those skills efficiently in a practice, how do you delegate work, that kind of thing. So that’s where the program went, right? So now, what the program is is we are a master’s program for credentialed veterinary technicians, and we build on the knowledge and skills learned in those CVTEA accredited programs at a master’s level.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay. All right. I want to say this back to you and make sure that I got it, okay? So what we have right now is we have credentialed veterinary technician programs, and those tend to happen at either an associate level or a bachelor level, but they basically turn out the same degree even those investments may be different. Is that right?

Dr. Bonnie Price:
I mean, sort of. I don’t want to say they turn out the same degree, but technically, there isn’t any guarantee of difference. Does that make sense?

Dr. Andy Roark:
Right. Yes, exactly right.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
I know vet tech bachelor’s programs are really good. I know a lot of people at work.

Dr. Andy Roark:
I get that. So I guess what I’m looking at now is we’ve got these credentialed programs. So we have an associate level and a bachelor level, and so they turn this out. There’s also the veterinary technician specialty program, which is like going into specialty and being boarded, but it’s very specific in a certain topic. So what you’re talking about is adding in a master’s level as well to broaden the learning path beyond getting your credentials. I think that that’s very, very true for technicians.
I think one of the reasons that we lose technicians so much is they come up, they get their certified vet tech degree, and then this is your life forever, and they go, “You mean I’m done? I’m 26 years old and I’m done?” They’re like, “Yup. We hope you enjoy this because there’s nowhere else to go,” and they leave the profession. I think it’s a real problem.
I think that is also a problem, just so you know, with general practice veterinarians. I think that that’s something. There is a lot of people who get their DVM and then after a while, they feel stale and it’s like there’s not a clear growth pattern beyond that. I think that that’s a problem in our profession.
So you were talking about adding in this master’s degree. It’s not the same as a technician specialty credentialing. You know what I mean? It is continuing down that developmental pathway. So that makes sense to me I guess as far as what it is.
My question is when we get to this point, what functionally does this look like? So we’ve already talked about the problem with having the bachelor’s and the associate’s and functionally when they come out, there’s no protected difference between those degrees. How is the master’s program going to be different from that? What does this unlocked for them I guess is the question.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Yeah. So for me, the master’s program, I mean, it’s the same way an associate program or a bachelor’s program isn’t a set specific career, but I think it sounds to me what you’re asking is clinically what can they do differently or just-

Dr. Andy Roark:
No, I mean, honestly, if you said to me, “This master’s is a path into industry,” I would say, “Okay,” and I would understand that that’s what it was. If you said, “This is a path to teaching in other veterinary technician programs,” I would say, “Okay.” I get that, but that’s really the question I’m putting back to you is to say, let’s say that my daughter, Jacqueline, who loves vet techs and can see that as a potential job, let’s say that she … She’s 15, she’s always away. Let’s just say that she gets her CVT and she’s looking at this program and she would say, “Dad, I want to go to this program,” and I would say, “Yeah, what are you going to do with that degree, Jacqueline?” Help Jacqueline answer that question.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
So I think there’s a lot of things to do, and I think you said a couple of them, right? So the same way there are jobs for associate level technicians in all of these places, there, I think, are jobs for master’s level technicians in these places. So right now, I know a lot of techs with master’s degrees. The master’s degrees they have are in things other than their field, other than veterinary technology. So business, education, with maybe some random, I think I know one with a history master’s, right?
So here, we’ve got more knowledge about veterinary technology so right away, opportunities in education. So we can get really into the weeds. This is my area as a academic administrator, but we can get super into the weeds about rules about who can and cannot be faculty at different colleges, but it’s difficult, particularly when you get to four-year institutions. It’s difficult to have technicians as instructors and faculty because of institutional accreditation requirements for terminal degrees.
So if we’ve got a technician who wants to teach at a four-year college in a technician program, right now, the terminal degree in veterinary technology is a bachelor’s degree. So they could not teach any … Technically, the only degree that they would be allowed to teach would be at associate’s level. Does that make sense?

Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
So then we get into these tricky ways to get around that at a lot of four-year colleges, where they get different master’s degrees and maybe some certificates in veterinary tech, right? It just gets complicated. So what ends up happening because it’s easier is veterinarians end up teaching technicians how to be technicians when we know that veterinarians don’t know what technicians can do. It should be up to the technician to do it.
So as we start increasing education levels terminal degrees for technicians, then they’ve got more opportunities in an academic setting to get faculty and instructor positions. With those kinds of positions come things like research opportunities. So then we can have technicians doing research in the field, advancing veterinary technology and veterinary nursing in that way.
So I think there’s a lot of academic and research potential, but that’s not the only potential. I also think that clinically, the same way VTSs can bring a lot to the table clinically, a master’s level technician is going to be able to bring a lot. So our students are going to have that same focus as a VTS, but they’ve got a broader knowledge. So instead of just an anesthesia focus or an emergency critical care focus, we’ve got a broader knowledge in surgery, anesthesia, internal medicine.
So here, within the existing practice acts, I think there’s a lot more that VTSs and master’s level technicians will be able to do without delving into that diagnosis, prognosis, prescribing, surgery. So if we think of, I know clinics that use ECC or internal medicine VTSs to do initial triage, do initial patient assessment, come up with differential diagnoses, I mean, we’re not diagnosing, we’re just preparing a differential list and getting those diagnostics started before a veterinarian sees that patient, and that is all within existing practice. So if we’ve got these really smart master’s level technicians, we can start to improve efficiency and practices that way.
So I’ve got about 30 students in this first class. Most of them are working in small animal practice, and the majority of them are in leadership roles. A lot of them are responsible for training programs within the practice. One of the big conversations that we have is just about the realities of their practices.
Now, ideally, they only want credential technicians doing the work that credential technicians should do, but there are workforce shortages everywhere. Some of my students are the only credentialed technicians in their practice. So they’re kind of practice manager, head technician, and they’ve got to train these veterinary assistants to do things. So understanding veterinary technology and medicine and all these things at a higher level is already helping them make better decisions in their practice in terms of leadership and leading their technician and assistant teams.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay. That makes sense to me. I can see that.
Hey, guys, I just want to hop in really quick and give a quick plug. The Uncharted Veterinary Conference is coming in April. Guys, I founded the Uncharted Veterinary Conference in 2017, it is a one-of-a-kind conference. It is all about business. It is about internal communications, working effectively inside your practice. If you’re a leader, that means you can be a medical director, it means you can be an associate of vet who really wants to work well with your technicians, it means you can be a head technician, a head CSR, you can be a practice owner, practice manager, multi-site manager, multi-site medical director. We work with a lot of those people. This is all about building systems, setting expectations to work effectively with your people.
Guys, Uncharted is a pure mentorship conference. That means that we come together and there is a lot of discussion. We create a significant percentage of the schedule, the agenda at the event, which means we are going to talk about the things that you are interested in. It is always, as I said, business communication focused, but a lot of freedom inside that to make sure that you get to talk about what you want to talk about. We really prioritize people being able to have one-on-one conversations to pick people’s brains, to get advice from people who have wrestled with the problems that they are currently wrestled with. We make all that stuff happen.
If you want to come to a conference where you do not sit and get lectured at but you work on your own practice, your own challenges, your own growth and development, that’s what Uncharted is. Take a chance. Give us a look. Come and check it out. It is in April. I’ll put a link in the show notes for registration. Ask anybody who’s been, it’s something special. All right. Let’s get back into this episode.
Talk to me about the pushback against this program because there are definitely people who have strong negative opinions. I’m personally surprised when I see this, but do me a favor and lay down the push against this program for me in a way to understand where people are coming from.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
So I think the biggest pushback I get and, honestly, so honestly, it’s the concerns I had. So I took this job because my dean is going to kill me. I shouldn’t say this, but I’m going to say it, Andy. Okay. So I was asked a couple of times if I was interested in this position and I kept saying no.

Dr. Andy Roark:
“Oh, my God! I don’t need that kind of stress.”

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Yeah. I was like, “No,” because I knew, right? I knew that everyone would be looking at it. I had a great job. I loved my job as department chair with the undergrad programs working with undergrads, but I did see this as a really great opportunity to advance education for technicians, and I had some concerns that I thought if I can get in, I can put the breaks on things a little bit and we can be a little more organized about our approach, if that makes sense.
So the concerns that I had coming into it were we don’t have any laws to support a mid-level provider. I do not like the term mid-level provider because I think everyone’s definition of what that is is different, right? We can all say that word and no one is talking about the same thing. So I don’t like the term mid-level provider, and I wasn’t, honestly, I wasn’t even sure when I took this job, if I liked the idea of a mid-level provider, period, but my opinion on that has changed and I’m happy to talk about that later.
Originally, this program had different requirements for entry. So it wasn’t only for credentialed technicians, and so I thought, “God, it really needs to be right.” So there were lots of issues I had with it. I think the pushback that I’ve gotten since I’ve started the job, and I appreciate the profession’s honesty. I feel like people feel very comfortable telling me.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Oh, yeah, no, they’ll tell you, they’ll tell you what they think.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Yeah, because I want to incorporate it, right? So I really do value the feedback I’ve gotten from people, but I think the biggest concerns I’ve had is how can you promise somebody that they’re going to be able to practice more sure after graduating, right? That’s not what the program is. I mean, years ago, that’s what the program started as, but that’s not what it is now. So it’s really a master’s program for credentialed veterinary technicians.
I think the other pushback, the other biggest pushback I get is return on investment. So that’s a phrase I hear a lot, ROI, “What’s the ROI of this program?” So that one is really interesting to me, and the answer is I don’t know. We don’t know because this is the first class.

Dr. Andy Roark:
You’re talking to a guy who has a master’s degree in zoology. I have that and I go, “Yeah, it’s kind of …” I think ROI is a great question. Like I said, if my daughter wants to go, I’m going to ask her, “What does it get you?” I have a master’s in zoology and it did not unlock thousands of wealth for me, just so you know. I don’t know that I can justify having it, but I loved it and I did it and it informs the way that I think, and I am a better student of life because I had this experience and I have this knowledge and the process of going through it and just doing something I was passionate about. So I totally understand that.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
So that’s funny because I threw that question. I threw the ROI question out to my students in a discussion board last fall. I was like, “All right. What’s the ROI, guys?” I actually have a student whose bachelor’s degree is in, I think it’s business administration, something business, right? She said, “Listen, the first thing we learn in school about ROI is that financial ROI is not the only kind of ROI. It’s not the only way you measure returns.”
So a lot of my students, the ROI for them is what you just described, “I know more about this thing. I’ve got this education. I can do more at my job with it.” I will say that most of my students have already negotiated for more money once they finish this program or they’ve negotiated for their employer to pay for part of it or all of it. So they’re already doing that. The program itself is a really affordable master’s program. So right now as we’re recording, it’s around $20,000 for the whole master’s program, which isn’t bad.
The other pushback I get … So ROI is the big one. I don’t know how much more on average these students are going to make when they graduate, but I do know that they have definitely come into this understanding that they may or may not make more even though they’ve made that decision. The other thing … Oh, I lost my train of thought. Hang on.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Well, I’ll jump in and say it’s interesting too how people think about education in a lot of ways. A lot of it is a confidence thing for people. A lot of it is feeling like they’re capable of doing other things. There are some people who feel like they could never stand in front of a class and teach if they didn’t feel like they had credentials that clearly empower them to do that. You might say, “Well, you don’t technically need a master’s degree to do that work,” but I do think for some people it’s almost an emotional need to say, “I feel like I need to really have this knowledge if I’m going to present myself in this way.” So I don’t know. It’s just a different type of ROI. It’s definitely the money. You could say, “Well, you could save $20,000 and not do it,” but if you say, “Well, I need $20,000 to believe that I have this opportunity,” you can do that math for yourself.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Yeah. I’ve got one student who works in veterinary technician education right now, doesn’t hold an instructor or faculty position. Once they complete this, they will, they will be eligible for that, which comes with, I mean, I think within a year or two, the program will have paid for itself. The other thing about master’s programs is … The other pushback I hear is that master’s programs have the worst lifetime ROI in terms of how much you pay for it and-

Dr. Andy Roark:
I get that.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
… the money that you’re going to get.

Dr. Andy Roark:
I get that.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Let me tell you this. So I’ve been in education a while, and that, if you look at all of them together, that’s true. If you do an average of all master’s programs together, that’s true. I think the most popular master’s program in the country is an MBA and that has a negative return of investment, surprisingly, right?

Dr. Andy Roark:
That’s interesting.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Negative return of investment. The ones that have the highest return of investment are master’s degrees in healthcare professions. So I’m hoping, I mean, obviously, we don’t know that it’s going to be the same for veterinary healthcare, but I’m hoping that that’s going to hold true for veterinary healthcare the same way it does for human healthcare.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. We are always, always optimistic about the future. I’m super optimistic for technicians in the future in vet medicine. I really think there’s huge upward potential there. I think that’s already tracking that way. So I am optimistic. I hope you’re right there.
Let’s talk a little bit about mid-level practitioners because that always comes up into this and people say, “Is this the path?” I’ve heard people say, “When human medicine started doing mid-level practitioners, they already had training programs before this was licensed to actually happen.” So I’ve heard that put forward in relationship to the program that you’re running.
So talk to me a little bit about mid-level practitioners. Really, I like what you said as far as when we say mid-level practitioners, everyone has a different picture in their head. I have 100% found that to be true. So when you say mid-level practitioner, what are you talking about? Then let’s start to talk about how that intersects with what you’re doing.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Yeah. So I think in the sense that I think of it, well, I think of it in a few ways. One of the ways that I think about it is just I ask myself the basic question, “Would I be okay with …” and I do, I’m in the camp that if we have this advanced practice provider or mid-level provider in veterinary medicine, I think it should be a technician. So in my head I think, “Would I be comfortable working with a technician who does some level of diagnosis, prescription, even minor surgery?” and the answer is, “Yes, I would.” If I had training that I could feel good about, I have worked with VTSs and I’ve worked with people that aren’t even VTSs that are smarter than me. I know you’re like, “Hey, did you think about this?” and I’m like, “I did not think about that.” So I know. I know that techs could do it, right?
I live in a part of the country where almost all of my healthcare providers are either nurse practitioners or physician’s assistants. They are wonderful. I mean, I know that this isn’t something that only a veterinary can do. I’ve worked, I’ve got an MPH. I’ve worked in parts of the world where non-healthcare providers are trained to do specific skills. So for example, they’ve got … So I’ve worked in parts of Africa where people who have not gone to school to be doctors or nurses are trained how to do one surgical procedure, and they do that surgical procedure better than doctors and nurses from other parts of the world, right?
So this isn’t something that I think only a veterinarian can do, but we’ve got to agree on what we’re comfortable letting technicians do that encroaches into those four things that only a vet can do right now. In the UK, vet nurses are already, veterinary nurses are already performing minor surgical procedures. They’re doing disbudding without a veterinarian present. They’re doing mass removals. You know what I mean? So we’ve already got that in other parts of the world.
So I think the conversation, look, I think let’s start here at this baseline and then maybe set some goals for the next few years, five years, 10 years, but let’s start a conversation about rather than saying, “Do we want a mid-level provider?” let’s say, “When are we comfortable delegating to a highly trained technician, a VTS or a master’s level technician?” I think that we can agree on something. I think that we as a professional, we as veterinarians, we can be absolutely agree that there’s some things that we’re comfortable delegating.
I think for me also, being in a rural setting, it is hard for me. If I need to get healthcare for my animals outside of hours, I don’t have access, right? So then I start talking to technicians about, “Well, gosh, why couldn’t we get creative about how we’re using telehealth to establish VCPRs via telehealth with maybe a highly trained technician present? Let the animal …” Do you know what I mean?
So I think that we can start talking about these things and agreeing on things that are sensible. I think the first step is to figure out what are the real concerns that people have? So the things that I’ve heard about mid-level provider concerns, the one that I hear most commonly, and this one frustrates me the most is, “Well, look what it’s done to human medicine,” and I don’t know what that means because when I look at it, I think it’s improving-

Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, no, I get that. That’s a good question.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
I can go see a healthcare provider now because there’s a nurse practitioner in my town that I see. So I think more specifics there would be helpful. I think other concerns are what are these people going to be doing, but we can come up with a list. We can come up with a list of things that they’re going to do. We can come up with educational accreditation standards. We can come up with all these things if we just sit down and figure out what we’re scared of and what we’re okay with.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, no, that makes sense to me. I thought a lot about this, and I agree about mid-level practitioners looking differently in different people’s minds. I can imagine three or four different ways that something like this might look. It’s everything from the doc in a box model that we have now where in the human medicine you have a nurse practitioner at CVS by themself doing the thing, all the way over to basically the dental hygienist who’s working very independently in the building with the doctors. I could see we’re nowhere close to the dental hygienist model. We’ve talked about it for a freaking as long as I’ve been in the profession, and I don’t know that we’ve really … We’ve migrated in that way some degree, but anyway, I think this thing can manifest a lot of different ways-

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Yeah,. I agree.

Dr. Andy Roark:
… where technicians have autonomy to practice, to really take some of the workload off of veterinarians, to be part of the healthcare team, to have upward mobility in their training, in their education, in their income earning ability. I think all those things are really possible. The devil is in the details.
My worry in all of this is that people react so emotionally strongly that we can’t talk about it, and then veterinarians, I worry that veterinarians are going to take themselves out of the conversation, meaning, “I’m going to get mad. I’m going to dig in my heels. I’m not going to talk about this. I’m going to try to shut it down,” and then powerful external forces, namely pet owners, demanding service and entrepreneurs with money to make it happen coming in. They’re going to just make their own way and I don’t think we’re going to like it, and that, that’s my worry. So anyway-

Dr. Bonnie Price:
I 100% agree with you. So I was just going to say that … So the AVMA recently put out an article saying, “Oh, it’s not the time for a mid-level provider.” NAVTA, similarly, they did a survey among members saying, “Here are all these things. Where do you rank mid-level provider?” and it’s close to the bottom, right? So that’s fine. If you read what the AVMA said about all that, they’re legitimate concerns. We don’t have the laws in place. We don’t have the educational system in place, but those are things we can do, but what you just said is also my worry.
So we’ve got the AVMA doesn’t make the laws, right? NAVTA doesn’t make the laws. State legislatures make the laws about how we practice in our state. If we do start seeing pet owners lobbying together, industry lobbying together, we’ve got powerful organizations lobbying together, they can get in and start changing the laws. I think that we as a veterinary profession, veterinarians and veterinary technicians equal at the table need to have conversations about where we want this to go because I think that the pet owners, shelters, all of these other stakeholders are wanting to see change and they’re fed up, and it’s state legislatures that make the laws.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Right. That’s right. The cautionary tale that bothers me is the taxi drivers. The taxi drivers, I remember as Uber rolled over them, were clutching their medallions that they had paid for from the city that let them operate a licensed taxi and saying, “We paid for these. We have this agreement. The laws say that we’re the only ones who can deliver people around,” and all around them, Uber drivers just picked up their livelihood and drove away with it, and no one came in and protected them.
It was, yeah, the laws were set up for the taxi drivers and, yes, they did have a medallion and, yes, they did pay their dues and they did all the things they thought they were supposed to do, and when people wanted to ride an Uber and Uber showed up with a business model that worked and people who wanted to do the work, our country is set up so that the capitalists win.
I’m not commenting on good and bad and whatever, but it is what it is. I think about the frustration of those taxi drivers and I say I am concerned that those taxi drivers are going to be veterinarians who are pointing out what the state licenses or the state practice acts used to be and saying, “Oh, no, no, no. We are the ones who make that decision,” and I’m afraid that the rules change and we’re on the outside.
So I am not saying that to scare people. I think about it a lot. I think for me, I want to engage what pet owner desires are because I don’t think pet owners are okay waiting three weeks to get in to see us. So I think that I’m worried that by deprioritizing an issue that I think is important to pet owners and that looks like a massive business opportunity for outside forces, I’m worried that we are going to be reacting to what other people do to our profession instead of stepping forward as leaders of our profession, recognizing which way the tide is flowing and positioning ourselves in the most acceptable, most advantageous way possible.
I think 100% that there’s ways that technicians can have more independence and do more for us and veterinarians can benefit from that hugely. I also think there’s ways that the technicians can have more power and that veterinarians are damaged by that. A lot of it is how do you position yourself and how do you look at the situation and do you accept where things are going and read the writing on the wall and make some adjustments or do you dig in your heels until you get squished?
I hope that that’s not true, and I don’t mean to be morbid, but I really do look that way, regardless of whether you like the idea or not. I think you can say, “I like this idea,” or, “I don’t like this idea,” and in both cases, I still see these external pressures. I still see the way that things in our country tend to work, and I need to go ahead and position myself so that I can adjust and still be in a very good place while these changes happen.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Yeah, and I feel like that’s the kind of pragmatism that we need to adopt, right? So if we close our eyes to this problem now, say we’re not ready as a profession and do nothing, we still won’t be ready in five years, right? All these external forces will maybe have moved on without us. So I think let’s be more organized as a profession and really have the conversations about what are the real legitimate concerns and how can we overcome those.
So one concern I hear a lot is in many states, nurse practitioners, I might be getting this wrong, either PAs or nurse practitioners can work independent of a physician. They can set up their own thing, right? So that I think is a big concern when people say, “Well, look what’s happened in human medicine.” I think that might be one of the things that they’re talking about, but we don’t have to do that. We can set our own rules. So if we’re organized now and we want people practicing under a veterinarian, then let’s start making those rules now. Do you see what I’m saying?

Dr. Andy Roark:
Oh, yeah.

Dr. Bonnie Price:
Get ourselves organized.

Dr. Andy Roark:
I have a podcast episode. It’ll be out when this episode comes live, but it’s not out as you and I are talking. I spoke with a founder of a company called Booster Pet, which is in the state of Washington, and it’s a practitioner. In Washington, technicians can work under indirect supervision from the doctors. Some of the practice stuff there was changed during the pandemic to allow establishment of a veterinary client, patient relationship virtually. So Booster Pet has a central clinical location, and they have wellness satellite locations where that do not have a doctor in the building, they have technicians and they have basically a telemedicine setup.
So the doctor appears on the screen in this building, and the technician does the wellness work, does everything. There has a video otoscope cameras to show the doctor thing, stuff like that, but there’s not a doctor in the building and the technician is working, and this is not an idea. This is happening in the state of Washington now.
I look at that and I process this and go, “The pet owners want it. It’s a lower cost examination.” I believe it’s a lower cost examination, but they can get in there, they can get seen. Sure, some people don’t want it, but there’s other people who say, “Wow, this is convenient, and I’m here for it.”
So anyway, again, I appreciate you referring to my view as pragmatic. That’s how I see myself. I am an optimist, but I am also a pragmatist, and you can balance those things. Anyway, I’m just looking at that a lot. As I said, I think this is an exciting time. I think this is a time of radical change in our profession.
Anyway, I really appreciate you taking time, Dr. Price, to come in and talk with me and just brainstorm. I could keep talking to you for another hour, for sure, but anyway, I’m going to let you go, but thanks for being here. If people want to learn more about the Master’s of Veterinary Clinical Care, where do they go?

Dr. Bonnie Price:
We have a website. So the easiest thing, honestly, to do is just Google Lincoln Memorial University Master’s of Veterinary Clinical Care and it’ll tell you the website because it’s, at the moment, not one of those easy short websites addresses, but it’ll take you to our website and you can check that out. That is the best way to do that, and that’s where all the information is.

Dr. Andy Roark:
All right. I’ll put a link in the show notes for people. I’ll run it down and it’ll be there, but otherwise, people listening can Google it. Thank you so much for being here. Guys, thanks for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you got something out of it. I will talk to you guys soon.
That is our episode. Guys, I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you got something out of it. Thanks again to Dr. Price for being here. Guys, thanks a lot for checking this out. If you enjoyed the podcast, if you got something out of it, do me a favor and leave me an honest review where you get podcasts. If you did not enjoy the podcast, wait and try another podcast and see what you think of that, and then see how you feel before you write a review. I don’t know. That’s just a thought. Anyway, guys, take care of yourselves. Be well. I’ll talk to you later. Bye.

Filed Under: Podcast Tagged With: Care, Vet Tech Life

Unaccredited Vet Tech Programs, Irregular Practice Acts & The Path Forward for Technicians

February 23, 2023 by Andy Roark DVM MS

Ken Yagi MS, RVT, VTS joins the podcast to talk about an unaccredited veterinary technician apprenticeship in the state of Washington, the quagmire that is technician certification standardization, the term “Veterinary Nurse” and how practices can change the way they leverage their support staff.

Cone Of Shame Veterinary Podcast · COS – 186 – Unaccredited Vet Tech Programs, Irregular Practice Acts & The Path Forward

You can also listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Soundcloud, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts!

LINKS

Veterinary Emergency Group (VEG): www.VEG.com

NAVTA: www.NAVTA.org

Dr. Andy Roark Exam Room Communication Tool Box Team Training Course: https://drandyroark.com/on-demand-staff-training/

Dr. Andy Roark Charming the Angry Client Team Training Course: https://drandyroark.com/charming-the-angry-client/

Dr. Andy Roark Swag: drandyroark.com/shop

All Links: linktr.ee/DrAndyRoark

ABOUT OUR GUEST

Kenichiro Yagi, MS, RVT, VTS (ECC), (SAIM)

During his 20 years in the field, Ken has discovered and refined his role as a veterinary technician by promoting compassionate and progressive care for patients and their families. He obtained his VTS certification in emergency and critical care as well as small animal internal medicine and achieved his master’s degree in Veterinary Science. He is currently the Chief Veterinary Nursing Officer for Veterinary Emergency Group and the Program Director for the RECOVER Initiative. He has been awarded the NAVTA Veterinary Technician of the Year award in 2016, the California Veterinary Medical Association Veterinary Technician of the Year award in 2016, and the California RVT Association of the Year award in 2017. Ken has co-edited the Manual of Veterinary Transfusion Medicine and Blood Banking and has published various text chapters and articles in various publications. He gives presentations internationally on topics in ECC, transfusion medicine, and the veterinary nursing profession.

Ken works to encourage further recognition of the vital role of the veterinary nurses and technicians through work with organizations such as the National Association of Veterinary Technicians in America co-chairing the Veterinary Nurse Initiative and serving as a board member of the Veterinary Emergency and Critical Care Society, the Academy of Veterinary Emergency and Critical Care Technicians and Nurses, and the Veterinary Innovation Council. He is also an advocate for the Open Hospital Concept, encouraging veterinary practices to invite the pet owners to “the back” as a part of the team.

Ken invites everyone to ask “Why?” to understand the “What” and “How” of our field, and to continually pursue new limits as veterinary professionals and individuals.


EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

This podcast transcript is made possible thanks to a generous gift from Banfield Pet Hospital, which is striving to increase accessibility and inclusivity across the veterinary profession. Click here to learn more about Equity, Inclusion & Diversity at Banfield.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome everybody to the Cone of Shame Veterinary podcast. I am your host, Dr. Andy Roark. Guys, I got a great episode for you today. I am here with Ken Yagi. Ken Yagi is so many things. He’s an icon in the veterinary technician world. He is also the chief veterinary nursing officer of VEG. He’s the former past president. He’s the past president of NAVTA, the the North American Vet Tech Association. A bunch of other things I talk about when he comes onto the show. Anyway, I’m talking to him about a new program in Washington State that is unaccredited that still funnels people into the technician licensing exam. And I’m like, “What is up with that and how does that work?” So we start talking about what an unaccredited technician program looks like, and then we talk about the [inaudible 00:00:53] that is credentialing and how it’s wildly different. There’s no standardization and what headaches that causes and how we get out of that.
And the last thing we end up is talking about the very end is if you want to use technicians differently in your practice, say you want to try to really leverage them, but you don’t know how to go forward with that, how do you do that? And I like that question because I ask Ken and you give a very nice succinct answer, and then I answered my own question after that. So if you want to hear what I think, I shared that with Ken even though he didn’t ask at the end of the episode. And that’s how this episode goes.
Anyway, I think it’s really fun. I think it’s really interesting. I am really thinking a lot about technician utilization as I look at our profession, which is wildly rapidly changing with telemedicine, with corporate acquisition, with pet owners wanting service and they can’t get into clinics, our capacity to see pets. All of these things are big deals and I think technicians are a big part of all of them. So technicians are a big piece. I don’t think people realize how important technicians are going to be in our profession, in our livelihood in the next five years and that’s what I think. So I really dig into that with Ken. Guys, I hope you’ll enjoy it. I hope you’ll get something out of it. Let’s get into this episode.

Kelsey Beth Carpenter:
(singing) This is your show. We’re glad you’re here. We want to help you in your veterinary career. Welcome to Cone of Shame with Dr. Andy Roark.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome to the podcast, Ken Yagi. Thanks for being here.

Ken Yagi:
Thanks for having me.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Man, it’s my pleasure. For those who don’t know, you have a laundry list of accolades. You are a veterinary technician. You are a veterinary technician, specialist in emergency and critical care and internal medicine. You were the past president of NAVTA with the North American Veterinary Technician Association. You are the current chief of veterinary nursing officer at VEG, the veterinary emergency group. So you do a lot, you are a huge voice for veterinary technicians and you have been involved in our profession in so many ways and I wanted to reach out and talk to you today about a big mess. A big mess that I think is having real effects in our profession right now and it’s going to have effects in our profession going forward. And that is the technician credentialing mess.
So what I want to talk to you is about what the heck is going on with credentialing of veterinary technicians? How do we get into this quagmire and do you see a path out? So to provide some color to what I’m talking about is, it’s been this case for a while that we’ve had different states have different practice acts that allow technicians to do different things and some states have protections for credentialed technicians or licensed technicians that says, you must be a licensed technicians do these things. Other states don’t have that at all. So there’s real sometimes question to the benefit of getting licensed if other people can just do your job and there’s no protections for you and things like that. And that’s been the case for a while and that’s been a frustration.
But then I’m looking around and the state of Washington actually, they just approved this controversial veterinary technician apprenticeship program that basically goes around accreditation. It’s not accredited and it’s an apprenticeship which sets people up to take the technician’s licensing examination. And you go, well, that doesn’t seem right to have a non-accredited program that goes around our formal education structure but ends up at the same examination. But I see it happening.
So anyway, I’m looking at that and I’m thinking a lot about the future for technicians. I’m thinking a lot about the capacity of that medicine, how we handle pet owners who want to get care. And I’m very optimistic about technicians in that way. But boy, the mess about credentialing and what we’re able to do and the lack of standardization, it really in my mind is holding us back from leveraging our technicians in any a uniform way. So anyway, that’s a lot to lay on you. Let me just pause there for a second and say of everything that laid out, do you agree with that assessment or am I off base?

Ken Yagi:
No, I think that the profession has definitely come a long way, but you’re right that there’s still a lot of work to be done before the credentials amongst all states are “standardized.” And I think there’s different things that we need to look at regarding that. I think you mentioned licensing in the sense of different credential titles being out there. The standards in terms of becoming credentialed should have been set pretty well amongst all states in that it requires an AVMA credit program degree passing the national examination called the VTNE and becoming registered, licensed or certified by either state governing bodies or private organizations that issue certifications to become a credentialed veterinary technician.
But then there’s the other pieces that you’re talking about. What does title protection looked like? Who can call themselves veterinary technicians? What does the scope of practice look like? Who can do what within the state and do they need to be licensed in order to do so? And all of those pieces could be slightly different depending on the state that you’re in, which makes it hard for people to know what a veterinary technician actually looks like. So in that sense it’s still a mess.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Well, it’s frustrating for me. I work a lot in practice efficiency and in running good teams and highly leveraging support staff. But speaking at a national and international level as I too, it’s really hard when what people can do in different states is so wildly different. I mean, some states that have no guidance or no empowerment of technicians laid out. And then I’ve got other practices in the state of Washington where you can have technicians that are indirectly supervised by veterinarians and they’re using technicians basically in buildings by themselves. And the doctors are coming in doing telemedicine appointments with the technicians, and it’s all clear and above board, but that’s how it’s set up in Washington. But I don’t know that moves to other states. It’s not something that you can say, “Well, we could do this here or there,” but I just use that as an example of the variability I see in how technicians can be used.

Ken Yagi:
Yeah. I think when it comes to scope of practice, the basic thing we can say is things like diagnosing, providing a prognosis, prescribing treatment and surgery is restricted to licensed veterinarians. And then everything else in veterinary medicine can be delegated to non veterinarian employees. So depending on the state, that needs to be a veterinary technician and depending on states, it could be anyone. And that’s the issue that we have. I think when you mentioned things like indirect supervision, there’s different levels of supervision that people need to have in order to provide certain things.
Obviously the higher risk tasks like surgical assisting, actually having like scrubbing in and having your hand in the abdomen and things like that needs to be immediate supervision that the veterinarian needs to be right there in order to do so while something like a blood draw could be done with indirect supervision where they might be somewhere within the facility or not even on the facility. And that’s all different and varied within each of the states. And it’s moving towards standardization in that AAV V S B recently put out a model regulation for veterinary technician and technologists scope of practice to outline what they should be able to do based on the level of supervision that they have.
So that’s like the goal that every state should be aiming towards to try to standardize. But that even then there’s different opinions within each of the states. When you have 50 different groups of people trying to form an opinion, it’s hard to come to a standard.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Stepping back to this Washington program. So you said in order to be a credentialed technician, you needed an AVMA accredited program with, this is not an AVMA accredited program. They do take the veterinary technician national examination and they do a state licensing test, but it’s not an accredited program. So are these credentialed technicians or are they going to be some credentialed assistant? I mean, and I don’t know, I’m just looking at this. They are trying to get my head around and say, what does this mean? Are these people going to get streamlined into the technician pipeline or are they going to not get streamlined? And this is going to be a thing of like, well, you’ve got this weird other certification that’s not exactly credentialing. Where does that go? Does that add to the disruption or is that going to flow into what we’re already doing?

Ken Yagi:
Yeah. So it’s a little bit complicated because it’s not a separate certification that we’re talking about. Actually, let me step back a second and say that the process is still ongoing, that they got provisional approval at the moment, but there’s an appeal process that people like Ashley Byrne, Ryan Frazier from Washington State Vet Tech Association, Ed Carlson, Ashley Seki from the National Association of Vets in America, they’re very much advocating for us along with the Washington State VMA and the AVMA in order to try to reverse this approval. But the provisional approval was that when people go through this apprenticeship program, they will actually be licensed veterinary technicians in the state of Washington. So the credential is the same, and so they’re being approved to do the same thing that people who have gone through the official accredited educational pathway would also have.
Now with that said, it’s a little bit different because this is what’s considered a alternate route of becoming credentialed that some states still have that allows people who don’t go through the standard AV merit program degree educational program and passing the national examination to become the credential technician in that particular state. So what does that mean? Well, I think it does mean that their education level’s going to be slightly different, so they’re trying to meet that standard in a different way.
So depending on how this apprenticeship program is set up and what their training process looks like and what the education that they get is, you would have two different kinds of people and it’s hard for us to make a judgment call on whether this program that’s being set up is going to be appropriate to create effective people who can safely practice as a veterinary technician or not. I think that’s something that somebody with expertise in taking a look at what a apprenticeship program would look like could tell us a little bit more about. But with that said, it didn’t go through the AVMA accreditation process because it utilized the state’s apprenticeship program approval process, which turned it into a little bit of a slight loophole that the state could use in order to create this pathway.

Dr. Andy Roark:
It feels like there’s a lot of people exploiting a lot of different loopholes right now in regard to medicine in general, but definitely to technicians, and I don’t mean that in a cynical way. I think it’s because there’s a ton of money pouring into vet medicine right now. I just went to the VMX conference and guys, our profession is fundamentally changing. The ground under our feet is breaking and shifting and it’s never going back and it’s just the amount of outside interest in what we do and the amount of outside money coming in is just absolutely huge.
So I feel like when people look at our profession and you see outside interest, whether it’s private equity or online retailers or things like that coming in, they look at our profession, they go, okay, well we’re going to make this work and there’s not enough doctors to meet demand or they’re not located in the right places. We’re not distributed correctly to meet demand and we have technicians and technicians are woefully underpaid and they want to do more things. The answer here is, we’re going to change the way we use technicians to get this work done. And I see a lot of leverage behind those dollars.
The people who are pushing all that stuff, they have real resources and they’re not interested in hearing about credentialing or how things have always been done. They’re interested in the outcome. So I’m seeing it’s almost like stress testing the system in a lot of ways. So I just look at that. When you hear me say this and say, I’m seeing a lot of influence and a lot of forces who have their own agenda and a lot of resources to back their agenda up. When you see them coming in, do you see the way that technicians are used changing radically right now or do you think that I’m making that up?

Ken Yagi:
No, you’re definitely not making it up because there’s different kinds of practice models that are coming in, different veterinary businesses that are being stood up and all them are going to need staff. So it really stems back to the shortage that we have and how do we fill that shortage with people that can provide the care that we need them to provide. So just taking advocate stance on this with that, I would say that if there is a veterinary technician shortage right now, the solution to that is to really elevate the profession. So what does that mean? If we want to have more technicians who can do the work that they can do, then make sure that they are clearly distinguished for having that credential and feel valued in that so they don’t leave the field. That we should pay them differently because of their credential. That they should be utilized for the education and that’s the way to do it, to keep them in the field that we have enough and more people wanting to come into the field so that we don’t have that shortage.
I think that feels like a long term solution because it takes a little bit of time to get that thing happening all over the place that people recognize this as not they want to come into. So then maybe that’s where your point comes in where if there are companies who are hospitals that are trying to fill the shortage with capable people going the route of on the job training, showing them how to do the procedures, perform the tasks and be able to do the more mechanical side of it without having the complete education behind it seems attractive because then you can get more people through to become credentialed. I think that’s the wrong way to go and I’ll be clear about that. I think that the education and people knowing the why we’re doing things behind the how and what we’re doing is definitely important and we shouldn’t deviate from that. But the solution to that really should be how do we get more people through the educational process?
I was looking at the apprenticeship program and it’s a three year experience program, so it’s going to take just as long as not four to get people through this program than the traditional education pathway. So it seems like it would be much more productive and better for the profession if we can get people through the educational pathway instead and provide the resources to do that.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. I don’t get me wrong, I completely agree. I was looking at it as well, and it’s like 6,600 on the job hours and three years. It’s not, send us your money and we’ll mail you a certificate. It is definitely not that. It definitely looks like it’s got some bones to it. So anyway, that’s why I wanted to talk to you about it was just to say I’m looking at this and it doesn’t look illegitimate as far as what it is, what they say that they’re going to do. I was just trying to tease apart what does accreditation mean and what does it mean when the AVMA says we’re not going to accredit it, and people are like, “We’re doing it anyway,” and then they go on.

Ken Yagi:
So I can add to that them, that’s a little bit different is that these people don’t have educational degree, so if they wanted to move on to have a bachelor’s degree in some science related degree or veterinary technology, they won’t be able to make that next step because they don’t have that associate’s degree. It also means that because it’s a non-standard pathway that they got credentialed in, if they decided to move to a different state and try to be credentialed in that state, they may not qualify. So they may not be able to practice in the way that they have been in the previous state. So it really, I think is a little bit more just to meet the needs of the hospital more so than trying to provide an opportunity for the people to continue growing and having a lifelong career.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. I agree with that. Hey guys, I just want to hop in really quick and give a quick plug. The Uncharted Veterinary Conference is coming in April. Guys, I founded the Uncharted Veterinary Conference in 2017. It is a one-of-a-kind conference. It is all about business. It is about internal communications working effectively inside your practice. If you’re a leader, that means you can be a medical director. It means you can be an associate vet who really wants to work well with your technicians. It means you can be a head technician, a head CSR, you can be practice owner, practice manager, multi-site manager, multi-site medical director. We work with a lot of those people. This is all about building systems, setting expectations to work effectively with your people.
Guys, uncharted is a pure mentorship conference. That means that we come together and there is a lot of discussion. We create a significant percentage of the schedule, the agenda at the event, which means we are going to talk about the things that you are interested in. It is always, as I said, business communication focused but of freedom inside that to make sure that you get to talk about what you want to talk about. We really prioritize people being able to have one-on-one conversations to pick people’s brains, to get advice from people who have wrestled with the problems that they are currently wrestled with. We make all that stuff happen. If you want to come to a conference where you do not sit and get lectured at, but you work on your own practice, your own challenges, your own growth and development, that’s what Uncharted is. Take a chance, give us a look. Come and check it out. It is in April. I’ll put a link in the show notes for registration asking anybody who’s been, it’s something special. All right. Let’s get back into this episode.
The point you made earlier that I want to circle back to that I think is really, really great and I think is really true and people should know it. I have a friend who is Melissa in Trek who I know she’s amazing. She’s a passionate educator, a die hard technician advocate and technician herself. And she teaches at the technician program near me. So I was talking to her and we were talking about when people are considering the technician program, they come in and they talk to her about going into a veterinary technology and she shows them the numbers and she says, “This is what your average credential technician makes and these are what the other programs we have at this school make.” And she’s like, “They see the echo cardiology technician, which is basically the same length program and it’s five times more money.”
And she’s like, “I just lose a huge percentage of them because they go, I can do this or I can do that. And it’s not like you’re saying, it’s $5,000 difference a year. It’s like, no, the salary’s more than double if you go into these other things that you’re qualified for. You have a science background, you have an interest in physiology, medicine, things like that, you’re already leaning in that direction.” And she says, “No wonder we have have a hard time filling technician school classes and things.” And I think she’s right. And I think that that’s what you’re speaking to. So let me push you on this a little bit, and I want you to look into your crystal ball in five years from now. What do you think is different, Ken, as far as technicians and how they work that is helping us move in that direction?

Ken Yagi:
There’s a lot of focus on technician utilization right now, and I think that we’re starting to realize that the fact that we’re losing people has a lot to do with people that feeling fulfilled in their career, which means that if they go through the schooling and they have a certain thought in their mind about how they’re going to function and they’re not being able to do the work that makes them feel meaning in their work is what’s leading to people leaving. So five years from now, hopefully all the concerted effort that’s going on right now is going to be fruitful that people in this field are going to learn how to utilize technicians better and will be utilized to the fullest extent and more people are going to be happy.
We’re doing things over here that’s called advanced practice veterinary nursing, which is at the highest level that we could have a credentialed technician, veterinary nurses here function, being able to take part in the physical examination process that they would make recommendations for treatments and while they perform the treatments, there’s a lot more advanced procedures that they could do on their own without feeling restricted by what’s normal for them to do. Those kinds of things will start happening where we start valuing the people who are very well-educated, very well experienced, combining the two to function in the way that we think they should be able to function.
And I think there’s certainly debates about whether we should be called veterinary nurses or veterinary technicians, but I do hope that we start to make the mindset shift that we are definitely in nursing in that it’s not just the science and technology that we handle. But it’s about the patient, it’s about the families, thinking about respecting all them and preserving their dignity through our care that [inaudible 00:23:2].

Dr. Andy Roark:
Well, there’s two pieces to opportunity for technicians I think. There must be a perceived value of technicians from inside of our profession, meaning the doctors need to allow the technicians to take work off their plate. The doctors need to recognize the value of technicians and say, “This is not a competitor for the spotlight. This is my friend, this is my colleague, this is my teammate.” And lean into that. So that has to happen for technician welfare to really improve. And I think that fixed a lot of things, that internal perception of drives the ability to pay people. But it also, and let’s be honest, I think a lot of times we talk about pay for technicians and pay for technicians and pay for technicians, and that is peace of it.
However, when I talk to technicians, pay is part of it, but I think at least as big a part is autonomy. It’s feeling empowered to be able to do work and to be involved and to make your own decisions and feel like you are having input and you’re not just an automaton waiting to be told what to do. That sucks. That’s not a career that educated and motivated people want to have. And honestly, I see at least as many techs leaving the profession because they feel like they’ve topped out, meaning there’s not more for them to do. Then the money. And I think the money is a constant drag of, hey, not only do I feel like I’ve topped out, but also I’ve topped out and I’m having a hard time paying my bills. And I think that’s a dark place to be, and I think that that’s why we’re losing tax at five years and seven years on average or whatever the number actually is. So I think that that’s so true.
The other part of this besides the internal perception of value is the external perception of value, which means in order for pet owners to pay for technician appointments, for technician services, for them to be willing to talk with the technician instead of the doctor, there has to be perceived value on the part of the pet owner. So when we talk about how we present our technicians, when we talk about what do we call our technicians, technicians or nurses, I think that there’s great value in using language that gets pet owners to see the value in the technicians. And I think it’s a worthy goal to say we’re going to educate them about what our technicians do. I think a whole lot easier path is to try to use language that they already understand and see value in.
And I understand that people don’t like the term vet nurse and I get it, and I’m not trying to argue with anybody. It’s just that I go, okay, well here’s the benefit. Regardless of how we do it, we have to get pet owners to see value in our technicians and not hold onto the old view of, “I want to talk to the doctor.” And you say, “Man, you don’t need to talk to the doctor. Quite honestly, you have a very competent person who is available and ready to talk to you and it’s not me.” And I think we have to do that internal sales job and that external sales job.
We talk about increased opportunities and things like that for technicians going forward, do you see more people or do you see driving factors in this being the technician specialties. Do you see more people doing VTS degrees or certifications in advanced areas? Do you see things like the master’s program at LMU starting to play a role in this advanced practicing or do you see an elevation of your classic credential technician, or a mixture of those things? Help me get my head around what this elevation, continued elevation looks like.

Ken Yagi:
Yeah. So is there more interest in VTS certification? Yes, definitely each year, and I know the most about the ECC Academy side, but each time the number of applicant grows, each time the number of examinee grows and depending on the year, the passing rate for the exam might be lower or higher depending on how people did. But with that said, we’re having more and more VTS is out there that have a heightened sense of awareness of what they should be doing. When you say working with autonomy and being empowered to do all the advanced procedures and making their own judgments based on their thought process. I think that the VTS certification process is particularly strong in people having the knowledge and being able to perform the procedures that relate to the specialty area. What I think is still variable is among that, how much clinical decision making ability do they come with and through their experience to gain?
And I think that’s where the master’s degree type educational pathway would be very helpful is that if we’re very good with the technical skills and the nursing procedures, but we need more clinical judgment skills, then that’s where the master’s degree could probably fill in. And that’s what it’s really tailored to do. Yes, there’s conversations about whether there should be a nurse practitioner like role or physician’s assistant role in veterinary medicine right now. And I know that the LMU degree is preparing people for something like that to happen, and that’s part of the intent. But even without that happening, people going through that master’s degree, I would think that comes out with better clinical judgment skills that makes them better partners for care with the veterinarians.
The one thing that I wanted to mention about the previous comment that you made about autonomy and empowering, I think one of the articles that talked about this Washington State program even used the term veterinary technicians are the right hands of veterinarians. And I look at that description and say, “That’s not true.” We’re equal peers, we’re professionals in our own that we have people who practice veterinary medicine and we have people who practice veterinary nursing or technology, whichever term you want to use. So then we really need to change our mindset in veterinary medicine as a whole as well of what a professional we actually are.

Dr. Andy Roark:
I like that a lot. If you are a doctor listening to this and you are just in regular general practice and you’re looking around and you have some credentialed techs that work with you and things and you said, “I want to work more collaborative with my technicians, or I want my practice to be a place that has some upper mobility for my technicians, or I really want to leverage my technicians and get a lot out of them and also give them a rewarding path to follow. But I don’t know where to get started or even what this looks like.” How do you advise people, Ken? People who say, “I only know the way that I was raised in the profession, but I want to see what the future might look like or I want to embrace technicians as colleagues, as teammates, as you said, I don’t know where to start.” How would you advise people?

Ken Yagi:
I think that’s one of the things that we’re all trying to figure out how to change the culture of veterinary medicine. There’s definitely conversations about if there were more veterinary and veterinary technology or nursing programs that were housed in the same campus and they learn side by side, would they have much better collaborative relationship to start out? And we have to start from the people coming into the field in order to truly change the culture. But I think just even asking that question to the people who are in the practice would be a really great place, place to start because who would be the best to give you more information about how we can work better together? Probably the people that you work with.
But there are definitely a lot of resources that are out there that the people who are out in the conference circuit talking about team-based veterinary care, how do you utilize technicians better? I think there’s all sorts of resources out there that we can take a look at. And I would also want the point with the great work that NAVTA’s doing these days in promoting and advocating for technicians and they can be as a resource as well.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, I love it. I’ll tell you in my own practice things I’ve found to be helpful just for doctors, they’re scared of letting go of the reins or saying, “This is how it’s always worked, and I don’t know about changing it.” Pilot programs are your friend. I think just saying, “Hey, let’s try this for a little while and see how it goes, and then we’ll reassess.” I think that’s a good way of starting to give your technicians more space in a way that the doctors can go, “Okay. Well, we’re all going to try this and we’re going to work with it.” I think that that’s good. I really love what you said about talking to your technicians. I think this is a collaborative experience and say, “What are your interests and how do you see engaging in this system?” And I just think that that’s such a healthy way to do it.
And the last thing I say is, if we’re going to make changes the way we practice, everybody needs to know what the goal is and feel safe. So a lot of times what happens is, I would say sit down and figure out how the doctors and technicians might work together in your practice in a way that would be mutually beneficial. And then step back and say, “Great. That’s where we want to go. What are the steps between now and there so that everybody feels comfortable and everybody’s trained, that everybody’s on the same page, and how do we break those steps up and how do we put them on the calendar and how do we slowly over the course of a year start to move in this direction again?” So you moving in a methodical way and you’re supporting people who are taking on new things. And this is the part a lot of people miss. How are you supporting the doctors who are giving things up? Because they often struggle a lot too.
So I feel like this is a gradual process, but I love that you say talk to the tech. I think that communication is absolutely key. But anyway, it’s just something I’ve been thinking a lot about and been working on them own business recently, so anyway. Hey Ken. Thank you so, so much for being here. Where can people find you? Where can they learn more about VEG and NAVTA?

Ken Yagi:
For NAVTA, it’s navta.net, it’s the website. VEG is veg.com. I am also on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook or something like that. I post regularly. So would love to see a lot more of you having some of these conversations. I put out questions related to the profession out there all the time now.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Cool. Awesome. Thanks for being here buddy. Guys, take care of yourselves. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being here. Be well. And that’s our episode guys. Thanks for being here. Thanks to Ken Yagi for coming on and sharing his wisdom. If you enjoy this episode, if you got something out of it, go ahead and leave me in the rush review wherever you get your podcast. That means the world to me. Share it with your friends. It’s also how people find the show. Anyway, that’s it from me, gang. Take care of yourselves. I’ll talk to you soon. Bye.

Filed Under: Podcast Tagged With: Vet Tech Life

The Hard Thing About Appreciation

October 20, 2022 by Andy Roark DVM MS

Showing appreciation should be simple. We’re acknowledging or recognizing someone for something good they did or that we enjoyed. What’s so hard about that? Well, it’s not really the act of showing appreciation that can be a challenge, it’s how we go about it to make sure that person really hears us.

Now, you might be wondering, “Andy, what on earth are you talking about?”

When I was a freshman in college, I told my English professor that I didn’t “get” poetry. I was taking a literature class and just wanted to be open about what I was struggling to grasp. “What’s the point?” I asked.

His response has stuck with me for almost 25 years. He said, “Every day I tell my wife I love her, and every day I really want her to understand how much I mean it. After being married for 20 years, the words “I love you” just don’t convey the depth of my emotions anymore. Their power has worn off. Poetry is how I try to make my wife understand my feelings about her after being together for 20 years.”

I think I’ve always remembered this because (1) it’s still how I get my mind around the point of poetry, and (2) it was my first lesson in how meaning fades over time, even if we don’t want it to.

Poetry is how I say “I love you” after 20 years of marriage 

When we think about appreciation, “thank you” is a lot like “I love you.” I was reminded of this sad truth when a friend told me she says “thank you” to her veterinary team every day, but she doesn’t think they “hear it” anymore. I suspect that she’s right, and that she’s not alone in having this feeling.

The truth is words have a bad habit of becoming background noise unworthy of the weight we hope they carry. In the veterinary clinic, this is what makes showing appreciation so challenging. The words or actions that we often rely on wear out well before our gratitude does.

So where does that leave us? Should we be writing poetry to our staff? Well, I’m not saying you shouldn’t if that’s your thing, but for most of us… no.

Specificity adds meaning to “thank you”

By recognizing that with time the gestures we make over and over serve us less and less, we can acknowledge that we have to try a different tact. In order for our team to really “hear” us when we say “thank you”, we have to speak to the individual (instead of the group). And we have to speak in specifics. 

We can’t say “Thanks” without saying exactly what we are thankful for. We can’t say “You’re the best” without telling this specific person why he or she is fantastic.

“Wow! This sounds like a lot of effort!” you might say. Well, you would be right. But that effort is what is required to make people feel gratitude today. And it can make a huge difference. This doesn’t mean you have to make some grand gesture, buy gifts or gush on social media. However, you do have to think about the honest emotions you are trying to convey and then tell those you appreciate why you feel the way you do.

3 great ways to show appreciation

  1. Say it.
    This might sound straightforward enough, but telling someone directly, in the moment or after, that you appreciate them or something they did or said can be really meaningful.
  2. Write a note.
    Whether it’s handwritten, in a text or an email, writing takes time and consideration. It’s a little sentiment that goes a long way.
  3. Do something special.
    While buying bagels or donuts for your team every day can also lose its luster after a while, treating the team to donuts after a tough weekend or picking up a coffee for your colleague on the way to work to say “thanks” for staying late the night before is a great way to show your gratitude.

There are so many ways you can show your appreciation. The important thing is that you don’t just rely on two tiny and tired words, “thank you,” to convey a depth of meaning beyond what they are capable of.

Filed Under: Blog Tagged With: Perspective, Team Culture, Vet Tech Life

Why I’m Leaving The Vet Clinic

March 30, 2022 by Dr. Andy Roark Community

Today was a big day for me. My eighteen months of maternity leave has finally come to an end and I would have been returning to work as a registered veterinary technician at the same small animal hospital I’ve been employed with for over nine years now. 

But instead, I’ve chosen to take a big leap and concentrate all of my efforts on helping families adopt rescue dogs with the Pawdoption Guide Membership Experience I’ve created, whilst caring for my young family. 

This is huge for me because I am such a proud RVT!

I have always loved what I do. I’ve been an advocate for my profession while regularly enjoying the pursuit of continuing education. I thought I had the coolest job in the world; as a registered veterinary technician you’re ALWAYS on your feet and you get to dabble in so many things. One minute you’re prepping and monitoring a patient in surgery, the next you’re taking x-rays, running lab work, reading cytology, or providing client education. The day-to-day work I did was everything I had dreamed of during the two years I spent obtaining my college diploma for this role. 

That being said, working in a vet hospital is anything but perfect. Even though the role fulfilled me, I seriously considered leaving my vet clinic a few times during my career there. I always chose to stay for the standard of care and professionalism that they upheld. I just didn’t think anyone else could match it. 

So How Did I Get Here… 

In 2019 when I started my own business, Pawdoption Guide, I had no idea when or if it would become a full-time gig. I merely started it thinking that I should have a backup plan because many technicians dealt with burnout or short careers. At one point, I had heard that the average career length for vet techs was 5 years! Probably, in part, because our low salary was and is easily matched by other job opportunities. Shift work, physical demands, and clinic atmosphere most likely played a role in this too. That statistic was an eye-opener for me. 

Now, there are certainly some technicians who stay in the field long term but I would not hesitate to say that the majority of them don’t have children. Unfortunately, veterinary medicine is not an easy field to be in while raising children and my priorities changed quickly with the birth of my two kids. 

I realized how much time I would be sacrificing with them if I worked the rotating shifts of an RVT. There would be weeks at a time where I wouldn’t see my kids following dropping them off at daycare in the morning. I decided I wasn’t okay with this.

Let me be the first to acknowledge my privilege to be able to make a choice like that or even have the financial stability to do so. I am very fortunate. 

When I went back to work following my first maternity leave, I was able to negotiate a stable work schedule with no rotation. However, in doing so, I had to relinquish most of my participation in surgery duties. This was almost unthinkable for me, my identity as a vet tech was wrapped up in this aspect of my work, yet I gave it up because I could not imagine the alternative. 

It was definitely the right choice for me and I got used to the new norm but my job no longer held the balance and satisfaction that it once had. This, along with a second child was really the tipping point for my in-clinic career. 

At this point, I was creating a lot of free resources and courses to empower dog adopters in their dog adoption journey, and completing each one of them enlivened my passion for dog rescue and adoption. I could never have imagined being so fulfilled by something other than my RVT duties in an animal hospital. So, with this personal growth came the awareness that I must continue to pursue this new passion. 

The nail in the coffin, so to say, was when I set out to write my resignation letter. I did what most people do and googled “resignation letter template.” The template I came across looked great and had all the necessities, plus a few optional things. One of them is to mention a memorable achievement, big accomplishment, or highlight of your career. 

I thought, “Sure, how hard could that be?” Well, I must’ve sat on that question for hours, maybe even days. I just kept reliving my 9 years as an RVT at this small animal hospital and all of the opportunities where I showed initiative, leadership or brought something to fruition. I thought of many things but I could not find even one thing that felt worthy of that title. Not one. Every example that came close had a mental asterisk beside it for one reason or another. The truth is, as a veterinary technician you do so many tasks. The accomplishments are many, yet that’s all expected of you. The authority to see projects or tasks through the way you may want to is seldomly possible. The vet or boss is always overseeing you and has the final say. 

For me, it was suddenly and overwhelmingly clear that although I enjoyed the tasks I performed as a tech I was left feeling unrewarded because I didn’t feel I could take full responsibility for my accomplishments. I wanted the ability to lead, not just contribute. 

I don’t want you to get the wrong idea and think that I resent my workplace for this revelation. I honestly don’t think I would have had a different result recalling a 9-year career at any other clinic. The really joyous or impactful memories for me all surrounded the camaraderie I experienced as a team or with my individual colleagues.

It just comes down to the role description of a registered veterinary technician which is to work alongside and assist the veterinarian. This was no longer serving me. 

In comparison, with just 2 years under my belt as an entrepreneur, I can name 10 things or more that I’m immensely proud of accomplishing and have provided me with personal and professional growth. That resignation letter gave me the clarity I needed to turn my side-hustle into a full-time gig while confidently leaving my in-clinic vet-tech career. Entrepreneurship is undoubtedly the way onward and upward for me as an RVT.

Photo of Bethany Muir and two dogs

About the Author:

Bethany Muir is a seasoned RVT from Kitchener, ON Canada, who is passionate about rescuing pets. She proudly uses her RVT skills to empower dog adopters in locating, adopting, and integrating their dream rescue dog via her Pawdoption Guide Membership Experience. Find out more by listening to weekly episodes of the Pawdoption Guide Podcast or visiting her website.

Filed Under: Blog Tagged With: Perspective, Team Culture, Vet Tech Life

The Secret to my Success: Mentors and Motivation

March 5, 2021 by Tasha McNerney BS, CVT, CVPP, VTS

Did you know that the average veterinary technician stays in the field for 7 years according to an AVMA study? So how did I, Tasha McNerney, one-time journalism major, make it to 17 years in this field without going out ala Scarface in the movie Half-Baked?

I’ll tell you it wasn’t easy, but I had a few cheerleaders behind me that helped make me so successful. Let me introduce you to a veterinary technician that mentored me and motivated me to go above and beyond.

When I started at Rau Animal Hospital in 2003, I was the typical fresh-faced, impressionable, new grad that wanted to take on every opportunity, especially if the said opportunity was a urethral obstruction cat, or a laceration repair, or an abscess, or reading a urine slide… I mean I was excited about everything! After working in the outpatient area for about a year, a position came open within the hospital’s anesthesia staff, I was certain I would be perfect for this and eager to learn ALL THE THINGS!!!

There was just one problem, the supervisor of the department, Vickie Byard CVT, VTS (dentistry) was feared. There were legends of her temper written in the halls, and it was said she would do things like ***gasp*** ask you questions in front of your peers and then laugh at you if you didn’t know the answers… ( side note: I have to tell you guys, this never happened with Vickie, however, I did have this kind of demoralizing hazing thrown my way at a specialty and referral center I interned at and let me say if you’re a tech that gets your kicks by laughing at how little the new techs know… I hope you get caught in a rainstorm and then your socks get wet and you have to work a 10-hour shift with wet socks you meanie!!!)

Anyway, I applied, got the position and was soon placing IV catheters and inducing anesthesia and recovering kittens from surgery. As time went on, I started to become more interested in anesthesia and began my path to my VTS in anesthesia. Vickie Byard saw that I wanted to get more in-depth anesthesia cases, so she started scheduling me on challenging anesthesia and dentistry cases. She helped advocate for me to attend more CE events to gain even more anesthesia and pain management knowledge, and probably one of the most amazing things was: she asked me questions about anesthesia and pain management concepts that she herself didn’t understand…on the treatment floor, in front of others. She was instrumental in fostering collaborative communication with the doctors and techs so that the medicine could truly be a team approach. Vickie would give her dentistry knowledge, I would give my anesthesia thoughts, and then together with the veterinarian, we would come up with a plan to best treat the patient. When I applied for my specialty in anesthesia and my application was denied, Vickie gave me words of encouragement and told me to not give up, and just try again next year. She supported me through not only career ups and downs but life ups and downs too, helping me to move a sofa up 3 flights of stairs when it would not fit in the elevator.

My point is, we all need a cheerleader. Great technicians and doctors are NOT encouraged to grow and get better by bullying and intimidation. In fact, they leave the field earlier, or worse stay in and spend their time bashing co-workers and clients. Great technicians and doctors are fostered in an environment that allows them to grow, and fail, and learn, and grow more. The reason I have lasted 17 years in this profession is because I truly really the field of veterinary anesthesia, but I love the people. Thank you, Vickie Byard, for making me a better technician, mother, and friend. Look at the people you have interacted with over your veterinary career. Who has made the biggest difference in your career? Let them know, then pass it on.

The views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the position of the DrAndyRoark.com editorial team.

Filed Under: Blog Tagged With: Perspective, Team Culture, Vet Tech Life

For Techs Every Day is Game Day

October 17, 2020 by Tyler Grogan

If you take a moment and think about it, I’ll bet you could start a long list of things you have learned about being a veterinary technician because of working through a global pandemic. Did you learn something about technology? Did you learn to communicate in new ways? It took me until now to see it, but I am a better veterinary technician because of the challenges of this year. There’s no way I can describe our universal experience, but I want to share my story because I have something important to remind you of – it’s okay to not know everything about vet med!

I recently heard a phrase that truly fits what it means to work in veterinary medicine: “Every day is game day.” Being a veterinary technician in a global pandemic has been like jumping into a brand new game without any practice, making new plays and hoping to come out a winner at the end of the day. How many times did you walk into the clinic this year to learn a new protocol would be applied right away (which from that moment was brand new information to absolutely everyone in your clinic)? It’s been overwhelming! For me, as we integrated more new things like wearing masks, curbside services and cleaning protocols, it felt like my brain started to dump other important information out. Eventually, I reached a point where I was making a bunch of simple mistakes. I did things like forget the parasites prevented by Revolution. It would slip my mind to record something in a medical record. I’d move slowly through an appointment because I was trying even harder to remember all of the things to be done.

I felt like I was losing it. Why was it suddenly so hard to do my job? Was I the only one feeling this way? What was wrong with me?

In August, I hit a wall.

I was so tired. I was tired of asking questions and the answers constantly changing. I was tired of sweating in a mask for 12 hours a day. I was tired of making mistakes. Everything about my job felt hard, and I felt the weight of everyone around me being tired, too.

There was a point that I got so angry at myself because I thought I was failing my team. All of the doubts I carried with me about my skills as a veterinary technician felt validated by my sudden inability to do what I would say was a good job. Then, after a courageous conversation with my managers and a lot of tears, I remembered something so fundamentally simple: we are always learning.

They reminded me that while I was doing things like making simple mistakes, I was doing a lot of things really well too. I was showing up to work in the morning and saying hello to my team to foster positivity and camaraderie. I was still taking time to teach other technicians about anesthesia. I was owning up to mistakes in the moment and setting an example to follow. I didn’t know everything, but I kept asking the questions.

What I needed to realize and what you should know is that it’s okay not to always have the answers. It’s okay to give yourself room and time to grow. In veterinary medicine, and in life, you hold onto information you need to know the most often. We have plenty of medical information we need to know, but this year, we added many new pieces of knowledge to our client education list… like how to use video chats! It’s easy to get wrapped up in what you see as shortcomings. When you get there… what if you think about a skill you’ve developed in 2020?

We are veterinary technicians. That means we are phlebotomists, anesthetists, janitors, educators, professional animal handlers and so much more. This year, think about how our roles have changed because of the state of this world. In just a few months, we have learned to communicate the value of what we do for pets without the benefit of eye contact or body language cues. We have learned to ease fear around pets leaving their owners for care. We have learned a million new ways to clean. We have learned how to work with even more compassion toward our teammates who are afraid or who aren’t. We should add a long list of skills to our resumes after this experience, and maybe even recognize a few that we had left out before.

There is no way to be the best at everything. There is no shame in reviewing the basics or asking questions you might have known the answers to once upon a time. It’s okay to lean on the knowledge and strengths of your teammates sometimes. Try not to focus on the things you don’t know. Think about all the incredible things you do know. You are a veterinary technician. You are an expert communicator. You have a compassionate heart for pets and their people. You do not know everything about veterinary medicine – and that is perfectly okay. Part of being a great vet tech is pushing yourself to keep learning. Guess what? This year pushed us in ways no one saw coming, and we are all better vet techs because of that.

The views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the position of the DrAndyRoark.com editorial team.

Filed Under: Blog Tagged With: Vet Tech Life

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