Mira Johnson CVPM CPA joins Dr. Andy Roark to talk about opportunities many veterinary practices are missing to lighten their load and speed up their work through automation.
In this episode, Mira discusses the benefits of decreasing human interaction in systems that are repeated (or simply are not enjoyable). She talks about identifying bottlenecks in practice and how to get started with the “core systems” a practice runs on. Dr. Roark explores how practices can calculate ROI for investing in automation, and asks about the most common pitfalls that practices fall into when beginning a path to greater efficiency through automation.
You can also listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Soundcloud, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts!
LINKS
JF Bell Group – https://cpasforveterinarians.com/
Dr. Andy Roark Exam Room Communication Tool Box Team Training Course: https://drandyroark.com/on-demand-staff-training/
Dr. Andy Roark Charming the Angry Client Team Training Course: https://drandyroark.com/charming-the-angry-client/
Dr. Andy Roark Swag: drandyroark.com/shop
All Links: linktr.ee/DrAndyRoark
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Mira Johnson holds a Masters’ Degree in Financial Management and Accounting is a CPA, and is a Certified Veterinary Practice Manager. She is a managing partner in the JF Bell Group, CPAs for Veterinarians. Mira’s passion is helping veterinarians to start, manage and grow the practice of their dreams. She embraces the use of apps to help automate the business side of their practice. Her articles about financial automation and employee motivation have been published in Today’s Veterinary Business and dvm360.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome everybody to The Cone of Shame Veterinary Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Andy Roark. Guys, I’m here today with my friend Mira Johnson. We are talking about making your life easier in practice through automation. Are there things that could be automated in your practice? Would it make your employees happier? Would it make your clients happier? Would it make your work go smoother? Guys, it’s amazing how many things we do again and again and again and just think that they’re part of our job. Boy, we get those things automated and it’s just one less thing to do. And boy, ounces make pounds. Your time adds up, a little bit of time on a task that we do again and again, again, ultimately over the course of a year that’s a whole lot of time.
And so anyway, I’m a big fan of automation. I’m thinking a lot in systems these days and how to make things flow more smoothly. And then also how to make it so that I enjoy my job and I’m doing new and interesting things and things that I’m good at and required for, and not so much things have just rote process that honestly could be taken off my hands and just done by an app. So anyway, that’s what we’re talking about today, guys. I hope you’ll enjoy it. Let’s get into this episode.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter:
(Singing) This is your show. We’re glad you’re here. We want to help you in your veterinary career. Welcome to The Cone of Shame with Dr. Andy Roark.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome to the podcast, Mira Johnson. How are you?
Mira Johnson:
Good, how are you?
Dr. Andy Roark:
I’m doing really good. I’m glad that you’re back. For those who don’t know you, you are a CVPM, certified vet practice manager, and a CPA, an accountant at JF Bell Group. You have been on the podcast before you did a podcast with me about embezzlement in veterinary medicine recently. That was really, really interesting and got a lot of interest. I enjoy you, I read your writing in today’s veterinary business, and you and I are right now kind of doing the conference thing together as we were at VMX, and we are going to Western. And so I’m excited to get to see you in person and to travel a bit and be in your orbit. So thank you for being here.
Mira Johnson:
Thank you for having me. I’m super excited about this topic. It’s my passion, business automation.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, so it’s business automation. Now, you talked about this a little bit last year at WVC, and then you’ve got an article about it as well. But I think this is really interesting. I’ll tell you where I’m coming from in this is, as a business owner and a generally very busy person, there’s a lot of talk about efficiency. And so I’m really in this place in my life and it’s because we’re adding a lot of new employees and the company I run, Uncharted, is really growing a lot. We’re really thinking in systems and automations, and it’s just been something that I have really been stretching my mind and learning a lot about and getting really into. And so I think this is a fascinating topic. When we say business automations, why don’t you start there and go ahead and define turns for me and just open up at a high level, what do you mean when you talk about that?
Mira Johnson:
Yeah, when I talk about business automation, that means it’s some kind of process where we’re trying to eliminate the human to, or not completely eliminate, but minimize the human interaction. So it might be something that’s repeating all the time. It’s data entry. It’s mostly the boring stuff that is coming and going all the time when some kind of event happens, for example, like you said, or have a growing team. So it’s the hiring part, the onboarding employees, paperwork that’s related with it and stuff like that. So you’re trying to eliminate the human from the process or to minimize it and I think that helps also with accuracy. So that’s a big part for me, not that you are only automating it, but also you’re eliminating them because we’re all humans and we all make mistakes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yes. Oh yeah, I completely agree. Okay, so we start talking about the veteran practice, and this is really interesting to me. The things that pop into my mind that I see a lot are in our pharmacy, in our workflow in pharmacy, from people getting refills, things like that. There’s booking appointments, online scheduling, things like that. I geek out about all of these things. I do not think that we’re going to be replaced by robots. I am not afraid of artificial intelligence. I really am not. Basically, they do the parts of the job that we don’t want to do that are not fun, that are just sort of tedious things in where people make mistakes.
I look at these things as opportunities and freeing us up to do the things that are uniquely human, which is to be empathetic, to give patient care, to give compassion to pets and people, to all of these sorts of things that really matter. And so anyway, I geek out on this. I know that we have so many practices out there that are just really overwhelmed and really busy. When you start to look at a practice and I say to you, Mira, help me, help me, help make my life easier, help take work off of my people, what are the first areas that you start to look at with an automation lens?
Mira Johnson:
That’s a good question. Before I answer it, I do want to insert one thing that you said, “I am not worried that the robots will take my job.” So there’s actually a website that’s called willrobotstakemyjob.com, and you can put your profession in there and say, is that really going to happen? So willrobotstakemyjob.com and when you put payroll and timekeeping clerks and auditors and bookkeepers, it will come back with saying, you are doomed.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Done, done, and done.
Mira Johnson:
That is just hilarious. But for veterinarians, you guys are not doomed, which is great news, right? So no, you are correct. Your job will not be replaced by robots. But back to questions. So when I look in the practice, I try to see what is the parts that are the bottlenecks or what is the parts that maybe the practice owner does not like to do? How long does it take? So I like to look at the hiring process. How long does it take to hire a person? When we have a lot of practices that have recently had a lot of turnover, so when the new hire comes in, you give them the W4 to fill out, then you give them the handbook to read or whatever your process is.
But there’s usually lots of paperwork and that employee, the new hire is tied up for sometimes even a full hour till they go through all their papers. And sometimes the HR manager or the practice manager, depending on the size of practice, will sit that person and go through the employee handbook, explain stuff and stuff like that. So I think that’s a time that’s not well spent in my opinion. This can be all done electronic before that new hire walks through the door. So I like to-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, I completely agree.
Mira Johnson:
Automate that part first.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, that totally makes sense to me. I talk a lot about practice efficiency and looking at how practices run. There’s three things that I like to look at and I’m just curious how you feel about these when I lay them out. And so the three flags for me, I’m a big believer in looking at what you do in a day and so one of the exercises I always tell people to do… And I honestly do this and I do it every couple of years, I usually get one of the big flip charts, one of the big wall post-it notes, and I’ll keep it for a couple of days and I write down everything that I do for a couple of days. And I do my personal life in there as well because let’s be honest, my life doesn’t separate out.
Picking up the kids is part of my day and cooking dinner is part of my day, and I just look at my life as one whole. And that’s what I do in the clinic. It’s what I do at home. It’s what I do is my hobbies, and I write them all down. That may sound really silly, but most of us never audit our life and our time and what we really do. But I think it’s so important because it gives me clarity on like, oh boy, I do a lot of things. And then I look, there’s three things that I really look at. What are the biggest time sucks? Meaning where am I spending a lot of time that I don’t feel good about? The next one is, what do I repeat over and over and over again? I’m doing the same thing again and again and again. And the last thing is, what do I just not enjoy? And I am looking at those things and I am looking to delegate those things away.
Just like this is a ton of time and someone else could do it. And so I need to figure out how to make that happen. I am just repeating this again and again and again and that does not make sense. And I think that’s the biggest flag for automation. But I also really like your point of just going, I just don’t enjoy this. I don’t like doing it. I would much rather have an interface where someone could do this by themselves. But I think a lot of new client paperwork, I’ve seen practices that will have a new client come in and every time a new client comes in, it takes a half an hour of front desk time to get this person set up. And I go, this is bonkers because you do it again and again and again. So how does that feel when I lay that out as what are the biggest time sucks I don’t feel good about, what repeats again and again and again and what do I just not enjoy doing.
Mira Johnson:
Yeah, I think that’s well said. A hundred percent agree with that because once it’s repeating over and over, I usually approach it with like, I wonder if I can find an app for it. People come to me all the time and say, “Hey, Mira, I am repeating this and I’m doing this.” And I’m like, “Oh, there must be an app for it.” Because there usually is. And if there isn’t and I don’t enjoy the work, then I’m probably not as great at it as somebody who is passionate about and who can enjoy it. So then I will try to delegate, so if the human cannot be taken out.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, talk to me about finding an app. When you say, is there an app for it, ’cause that’s not a phrase that would go into my head. What do you mean? If I came to you and sort of said, Hey, I don’t know insert sort of process here, maybe you have an example. What does that look like?
Mira Johnson:
Yeah, let’s just say that for example, and I’m just going to go from my neck of the words, that if there is a client that says I process payroll by entering time cards in there and I have to calculate over time because I’m exporting this time card from a software and then I’m trying to retype it in here. Then my first thought is like, okay, how often do you do this? So biweekly. Okay. And it’s just you who can do it? Well, no, but I don’t really trust anybody. Nobody’s trained to do it. I’m just going to do it myself. It takes only a few minutes. And then my other question is how often is it accurate?
Because typing hours for a team of five might be accurate 99.9%, but once you have a big team of 50 and you have to type 50 time cards, that is a good chance that you’re going to… So at that point I would be like, okay, let’s see if there’s an app for it that can automate the process. So our problem is that we’re manually entering something that, in my opinion, could be integrated or exported. So integrated means with a push-up button, it will pull the information or push the information so you don’t have to actually manually export and import.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I love that you asked the question, am I the only one who can do it. So let’s jump back to my exercise. When I write down all the things I do, I put it in three columns, and the first is things that I love, meaning this gives me joy and I don’t want someone else to do it. And then things that only I can do. And then the last column is everything else. And I’m real picky about what goes into everything into only I can do. And then the other thing is if I don’t love it and it’s not something that only I can do, it’s a hundred percent on the table for automation or delegation. That’s why I make that list is so I can look and say, how do I get rid of this?
Okay. All right. So it makes sense to me. So the first thing is I’m doing this again, I’m spending time. Let’s look for an app, let’s look for a system that already does it. Are there guidelines that you put forward when… First of all, are there flags for when you say, I’m going to start looking for automations at this point? And then when you start to look, are there resources that you really like? Are there ways that you look at this? Help me sort of think strategically about how to start setting these things up. Because I’ll tell you this, my worry when you say, is there an app for it? I’m going another app and there’s a pit of having 85 different programs that do one little thing. So help me with that.
Mira Johnson:
So I like to start with the core. So in the veterinary practice, the core is going to be a practice management software. So I’m going to look at it and say, okay, is it going to integrate? If I’m looking for a solution that has something to do with the practice management software, if it doesn’t, it’s outside of it, then I will look at the current software that I’m using. So back to my example on a payroll, I’m going to look at the payroll software that I’m using. Am I happy with it? Is it fully automated? Is it giving me everything I need as far as the onboarding goes and stuff like that? And then I’ll look, does it have its own timecard that I can use because it would be already built in. Now, if it doesn’t, then I’m going to look at apps that integrate with this software.
And yes, there will probably be, like you said, 85 of them. So it is a bigger task than it looks like sometimes, but I am not saying you have to look at all the 85 of them. I’m just saying try to explore couple, do a demo and then see which one’s best work for you. So sometimes we get really bulked down by like, oh my gosh, this is overwhelming, there’s 85 of them, how am I going to pick? So I like to reach out to the communities and see, okay, what is everybody using, what do they like about it? What do they not like about it? And then I can find out like, oh, majority of the people were saying they’re using this but it doesn’t track the PTO or you cannot request a time off from this time card. Or it maybe doesn’t calculate overtime based on California rules because they’re complicated.
So I am trying to always ask multiple questions to kind of get in the detail of what that app will do and what it will not do. So unfortunately there’s not a perfect app for anything in my opinion. So there’s always going to be something that you’re going to be like, well, maybe I don’t need this. I really need scheduling. So this app does not have a scheduling, but I do want a scheduling, so I’m going to go with this one. Even though I might not be able to calculate the PTO based on accrued time worked. That will reset every year or some complicated… And maybe then I’m thinking, well, it’s probably a complicated PTO anyway. I should probably look what other peoples are doing and replace that policy. But that’s a side note.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Gotcha.
Mira Johnson:
When it comes to practice management softwares, I do like to look at how we can help our people who are… Inventory is always a big thing. So how can I manage inventory and automate that process? So at that point-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Sorry.
Mira Johnson:
Go ahead.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Take it back.
Mira Johnson:
So at that point, I will look at the practice management software and I said, okay, so my inventory is all the products that I have on the shelves and then all the products are coming in and going out, as simple as that. How can I automate the coming in and going out and maintain the count that’s in there? So I don’t have to count anything that will be automatically in the software. There’s so much good practice management software that have inventory module built in and there’s so little practices that are using that. So that’s another thing that I think when we come to software, we usually develop our medical side pretty good.
We create templates, we put all the products in there and then we don’t have time or we don’t understand how it works and we hope that somebody else might figure out down the road. So we just don’t put the inventory in there when we buy it. So it’s not accurate and it’s just disservice to our own records because now we have no idea how many products we have on shelves unless I walk into the practice and count them manually.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, that totally makes sense. Hey guys, I just want to hop in really quick and give a quick plug. The Uncharted Veterinary Conference is coming in April. Guys, I founded the Uncharted Veterinary Conference in 2017. It is a one of a kind conference. It is all about business. It is about internal communications working effectively inside your practice. If you’re a leader, that means you can be a medical director, it means you can be an associate vet who really wants to work well with your technicians. It means you can be a head technician, a head CSR, you be a practice owner, practice manager, multi-site manager, multi-site medical director. We work with a lot of those people. This is all about building systems, setting expectations to work effectively with your people. Guys, Uncharted is a pure mentorship conference. That means that we come together and there is a lot of discussion.
We create a significant percentage of the schedule, the agenda at the event, which means we are going to talk about the things that you are interested in. It is always, as I said, business communication focused, but a lots of freedom inside that to make sure that you get to talk about what you want to talk about. We really prioritize people being able to have one-on-one conversations to pick people’s brains, to get advice from people who have wrestled with the problems that they are currently wrestled with. We make all that stuff happen. If you want to come to a conference where you do not sit and get lectured at, but you work on your own practice, your own challenges, your own growth and development, that’s what Uncharted is. Take a chance, give us a look, come and check it out. It is in April. I’ll put a link in the show notes for registration. Ask anybody who’s been, it’s something special. All right, let’s get back into this episode.
So talk to me a little bit about areas of opportunity for most practices in their PIMS because you put your finger on something that I really liked and you kind of blew my mind. Absolutely, practices look at their PIMS and go, how do we get our medical records the way that we want, how do we get the patient care things set up and things like that. And there’s much less emphasis put on setting up the business side of the PIMS. When you think about how practices are using their PIMS, are there patterns that you see? Are there really area of opportunities that you see people missing a lot of times? Talk to me about that.
Mira Johnson:
Yeah, I think the biggest part is that lots of PIMS are now integrated with other softwares, so not just from the medical side. So I can see that some people are like, well, I know my lab does integrate, but I haven’t figured out the integration. It’s probably complicated and it’s not going to work. Or maybe they tried it and didn’t work the way they wanted, so they kind of dropped their trying. But at that point I would reach out to the vendor and sometimes it can be really frustrating because they’re like, “Well, it’s not working because the other software is not set up, so reach out to the other software.” And then you reach out to your PIMS and they’re like, “No, you need to reach out to your lab. They will help you set it up.”
So sometimes there’s the back and forth, which can be really frustrating, but that is one of the things that if you have to pull your X-ray from like a… That it downloads the image to your computer and then you have to upload it to your practice management software, that is repetitive task. How many times do we attach it to a different patient? How many times do we not attach it at all? Because we forgot and we open it and we discuss it with a client and then we didn’t put it in there. So I think those are the low hanging fruit that I think will save you time and it will get your accuracy rates up and other things there with the vendor’s integration.
So if I’m buying from a big vendor, I would like to look if they do integrate or if I’m using a platform that combines all the vendors and you buy from only that platform, you can also possibly integrate that platform. So every time when you purchase something, let’s just say I order a vaccines, and when the purchase order is placed inside of the practice management software and then you receive it inside of the practice management software, your quantities automatically update. Instead of somebody when the invoice arrives, they’re like, okay, we got the vaccine so there is 25 rabies and I will go ahead and enter them as received in the computer. Again, you’re receiving, putting in the computer while that can be done with one push of a button or sometimes automatically.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, no, that absolutely makes sense. I resonate with your point about… You talk to the PIM system and they say, no, it’s the lab and the lab is like, no, it’s the PIMS. And you go, ah, this is a slog. And that brings me to my next question. So sometimes we look at these opportunities for automation and you go, this seems like a headache. It seems like… You go, this is going to be a nightmare to figure out. And so there’s a time investment in setting this up. The other thing is when we talked about apps and you say, well, surely there’s a software that does this or a package that does this, why don’t I pay for those? So it’s a subscription package or it’s a purchase upfront or things like that. A lot of people that I work with, and I’ve had this problem before too, they have a hard time understanding return on an investment for automation or knowing what it is.
So if someone says, Hey, we’ll do this, but here’s the service and this is what it costs, and I go, am I better off doing that or am I better off doing the kind of broken around about like workaround that I’ve done in the past? Do you have a way of looking at automation where you do return on investment calculations where you say, this is worth X dollars and I’m willing to pay for this service? Or is it sort of a gut feel for you where you try to say, boy, I really don’t like doing this, so I’m willing to pay more. Talk to me about calculating return on investment before you go in on automation. Because you’re going to get pushback when you say, Hey, I want to do this differently. And the regional director or your manager, whatever your field leader says, nah, I don’t know that if that makes sense to make that purchase. How do you look at those things?
Mira Johnson:
Yeah, I think if there’s an easy way to calculate the time that you spend on it, that’s probably the easiest way to convince somebody that it’s much easier to just pay for the subscription, then do it yourself. So for the payroll runs, that’s easy because you can be like, well, it takes me 30 minutes to run payroll for 50 people. It can take me five minutes to do that if everything is aligned. So you can put a price tag on that one. Now, on the little things like the uploads and downloads and stuff like that, that’s really hard to calculate the time. I mean you can, but it’s kind of nitty-gritty and it’s like, well, it took you only two minutes this time and then it takes you 10 minutes because you can’t find the file because somebody downloaded and changed the destination folder.
Oh, who was it? Oh, man. Anyway, so I just always say how about… Some of them come with a free trial, which is a nice kind of a hook because you get hooked on it and then you are like, I am never going back, torture me how much you want I don’t want to go back. So I would say take the trials. As far as calculating the return on investment, look at what else can you do with that time that will save you. And sometimes, especially like you said, the new forms for the new client, I think that’s not just… The things is that it’s not just your time, but it’s also the client time. They have to wait for you to put it all in while they can set it home, typed it in, and then it appears magically on your site. So I think the calculating the cost versus ROI is it can be tricky. So sometimes it’s easier to just jump in, take advantage of the free trial and then say it, did it really do what I wanted to do?
Because I think we get bold kind of with, oh, this looks great, this is all new shiny new thing that I can automate. And then you realize that you are spending more time on trying to make the app automated and work than it’s worth or which I see this a lot, is you just didn’t set it up right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Mira Johnson:
So we are so excited. This is thing, like the practice management stuff, we’re so excited we get everything up and running and then we just don’t finish or we set up wrong because we don’t know what we’re doing. So we’re at this point like, oh, I don’t want to hire somebody who understands this. All the softwares usually have some kind of learning specialist or consultant that they can… It’s either free you or it’s a paid service that they can help you with. And I think those are the best money you’ll ever spend because you’ll never have that problem.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I want to unpack that a little bit more. Are there pitfalls that you see practices fall into with automation? And so if someone’s like, I want to make my life easier, I really want to jump into this. And you’ve already touched on a couple of them I think as we go along, but can you put a bow on it for me? What are the pitfalls that practices fall into when they set out to try to automate some of their workflow?
Mira Johnson:
I think the biggest pitfalls is that you don’t set it up or you don’t set it up at all. So you just hook the apps and hope for the best. And sometimes we don’t check if it’s working. I had people who are like, “Well, it does integrate.” And I’m like, “I don’t see the result of the integration. It’s not appearing in your software.” “Well, it’s been set up a year ago, it’s working.”
It’s not. So we don’t check if it’s working. We just invested the money and we hope for the best, seems like at sometimes. And another pitfall is I think that we don’t realize the impact that it might have an overall team morale, so there’s all these things that we don’t see and can’t really put a price tag on. We just recently had at the beginning of the year two clients that they were trying to roll out their 401K. So there are fairly new practices and they’re both excited and we always push our practices that they’re doing well that first thing, you should take care of your people and 401K is a great investment for their future and it doesn’t cost that much money for you as a practice owner to do those. So the benefit is huge for both parties in my opinion. And so they both approach differently.
One went with an app that integrated, so the retirement plan was created, that you didn’t even know it was created, you pretty much just click a button and it said, okay, what kind of plan do you want? Talk to the specialist. And then it was created in the background electronically and when the time comes that the people were eligible, the system looks into your payroll system at the days that they were hired, make sure they work the amount of hours that they are supposed to be eligible and then it automatically just shoots them an email. And when the email was sent, I just said, Hey, you’re eligible to participate in 401K for a Fluffy and Duffy company and we would love you to participate and you can do it on your phone. So if a click of a button you are like, yeah, I would like to enroll, or you can say, no, I don’t want to.
And then it usually asks you, why don’t you want to contribute? And you’re supposed to answer it, which is kind of cool because you get a little feedback on why you’re not going to participate. And the second practice… Oh, so let me finish that one. So once they click on it automatically opened their account because it had all their social security, everything was in the background already tied up. So it was super easy to enroll, very easy. Now, the other practice, what they did is they went in a traditional way. So they found the plan administrator and then the… What is it called? The other party that helps you set up the… There’s a compliance and anyway, there’s two different companies that you usually have to hire. And then the broker came and talked to every employee and explained how important their retirement is. Left them a booklet with a link to the page where they can enroll enough. And off they went. So at the beginning of the year, the first practice that did everything integrated, they had 87% of enrollment. The other practice had 19% enrollment.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That’s amazing.
Mira Johnson:
And they were thinking, well, yeah, they just don’t want to participate. And I’m thinking, yeah, if you can’t do it on your phone, especially for the young crowds, I’m not going to do it.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. I have to sit with that a little bit. What does it mean if you can’t do it on your phone, we’re not interested in it? I think that that’s true and I think that that’s a lot of where education is going. And then also I just hadn’t really stopped and thought about as far as employee participation in programs and things like that. All right. This is interesting. I got a lot to sit and think about here. Mira, thanks so much for being here and for talking through this with me. I really, really appreciate it. Where can people find you online? Where can they learn more about JF Bell Group?
Mira Johnson:
Yeah, our website is cpasforveterinarians.com or jfbellgroup.com. And you can find us on social media LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook. And if you are looking for a place to start as far as your integration process goes, I always encourage people to reach out to their vendors. So if you have a practice management software rep, reach out to them and said, what are the best practices. Be part of communities like maybe VHMA, Unchartered veterinary community where you can talk to people and see what they’re doing. And I always say, don’t settle for the best practices. Do your own research after you are already in the app and you were integrated and said, what else can I do? How else can I make this better and efficient? Because I think it’ll save you so much time.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Oh, that’s so great. Thanks so much for being here. Guys, thanks for tuning in today. I hope you enjoyed it.
Mira Johnson:
Thanks, Andy.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And that’s it guys. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you got something out of it. Thanks to Mira for being here. Gang, if you enjoyed the episode, let me an honest review wherever you get your podcast, share it with your friends. I always appreciate that type of support. It’s how people find the show and it just means a lot to me. Gang, take care of yourselves. Be well. I’ll talk to you soon. Bye.
