On this week’s episode, Dr. Andy Roark is joined by Dr. Mary Gardner to discuss one of her personal passion projects, raising awareness about geriatric onset laryngeal paralysis and polyneuropathy (GOLPP) in senior dogs. Dr. Mary Gardner shares her experience with the disease and how that’s led to her commitment to educating both pet owners and veterinary professionals on various treatment options.
ABOUT OUR GUEST
There is nothing better to Dr. Mary Gardner than a dog with a grey muzzle or skinny old cat! Her professional goal is to increase awareness and medical care for the geriatric veterinary patient and to help make the final life stage to be as peaceful as possible, surrounded with dignity and support for all involved.
A University of Florida graduate (AND ANDY’S CLASSMATE!), she discovered her niche in end-of-life care and is the co-founder and CIO of Lap of Love which has over 350 veterinarians around the country dedicated to veterinary hospice and euthanasia in the home.
Dr. Gardner is co-author of the textbook “The Treatment and Care of the Veterinary Patient”, co-author of a children’s activity book focused on saying goodbye to a dog called “Forever Friend”, and the author of a book dedicated to pet owners “It’s Never Long Enough: A practical guide to caring for your geriatric dog”. Dr. Gardner also won VMX Small Animal Speaker of the year in 2020!
Dr. Andy Roark: Welcome everybody to the Cone of Shame veterinary podcast. I am your host Dr. Andy Roark. Guys, I am here with one of my best friends in the world, Dr. Mary Gardner. I love her to pieces. We went to vet school at Florida together. You’ll hear us talk about that a little bit. She has a passion project that she is working on.
It’s around laryngeal paralysis and GOLPP in senior pets. Some of you might remember Mary Gardner. She is the founder of Lap of Love pet hospice. She is a she is a hospice care veterinarian. She is a amazing lecturer. If you ever get a chance to see her speak, you should. You’re going to look and you’re going to be like, man, she’s doing three hours on end of life care.
That sounds really down. It won’t be, it will be riveting and you will learn an absolute ton from someone who is super easy to relate to someone who will make you laugh and smile and feel good about the work that we do. That’s Mary Gardner. So anyway, she is amazing. I am thrilled to be talking to her about this project that she’s fired up about that.
Honestly, when I first heard about it, I was like, why are we talking about that? Boy, she makes a good case. This is going to be great. Let’s get into it.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter: (singing) This is your show. We’re glad you’re here. We want to help you in your veterinary career. Welcome to the Cone of Shame with Dr. Andy Roark.
Dr. Andy Roark: Welcome to the podcast. Dr. Mary Gardner, thanks for being back.
Dr. Mary Gardner: Hi, Andy. I know. I think this is like our third or something like that.
Dr. Andy Roark: It’s tough being up there. Like, you’re definitely up there at the top of the people that I’ve had on the podcast again and again. It’s just because I love you to pieces,
Dr. Mary Gardner: I know
Dr. Andy Roark: We’ve known each other forever. And every time I talk to you I get excited about what you’re doing and what you’re excited about and we just kind of feed off of that. And this was no, exception. So, you and I were together in Orlando in January, and I had looked at the program, and there was, Mary Gardner is doing a LARPAR surgery lab, and I’m like, either that’s a typo, or Mary Gardner is blossoming late in her career in ways that I did not anticipate and I talked to you and you were like I am doing the laryngeal paralysis workshop. And when I talked to you later I was like how was it and you were like I want six hours instead of four and I was like I like we have to talk about this this is not it would be like if I came to you and I was like I’m into Turkish baking and I love it.
I’m like, I just, it, talk to me about laryngeal paralysis and your love affair with this kind of odd medical condition.
Dr. Mary Gardner: It is. I know. And I always say like, I love it, but it’s weird to say that you love a disease, right? I hate it. I wish it wasn’t a disease, but you, I love it. It’s like, it’s just something that came into my, life personally and also professionally. My Doberman, you know, Duncan, he’s always a topic of many conversations, but he, when he was about 9 or 10, more, like 10, he started to clear his throat.
So he just was doing it. Which, you know, I’m like, Oh my God, that’s my Doberman coughing. I instantly went to DCM heart disease, you know, and
Dr. Andy Roark: It’s a dark, the dark place we go. Oh my god.
Dr. Mary Gardner: Right. He could have just had a little acid reflux. No, I went straight to stage 20 heart disease. I already went there. So, so I, bring him to the cardiologist. Like, I don’t even touch my stethoscope. I’m like, you’re going to the cardiologist, buddy. Right. And they’re like, no,
Dr. Andy Roark: We turn into, it’s when we turn into needy pet owners. We’re like, Oh my God!
Dr. Mary Gardner: Totally.
Dr. Andy Roark: Someone listened to this chest.
Dr. Mary Gardner: Exactly. Cause I can’t. And so I brought him in the right. No, he’s actually totally fine. And I’m like, he’s doing this weird clearing his throat. It’s not a reverse sneeze. It’s, you know, and so, turns out that then he was diagnosed with laryngeal paralysis and this is probably, gosh, I, should look at the exact dates, but it’s probably around 2014, 2015 or something like that.
Right. And yeah, probably around that. And so it was then a decision. Do I wait for him to get? worse and then end up in an emergency situation, which is what we see so much. Or do I consider or do I consider euthanasia before he gets that bad? And then, or do I consider doing the surgical option, which is the tieback.
And for me, it, he wasn’t so bad, like his breathing wasn’t horrific. It started over the next few months. So I can then see his breathing when he was sleeping. It was, you know, a little snoring, but it was like, and I’m like, nope, that’s, he’s not going to live like that. Right? So no doubt in my mind, I was going for the tie back and
Dr. Andy Roark: 10 year old Doberman, right?
Dr. Mary Gardner: 10 year old Doberman.
Yes. Yes. This, and that’s a very good point.
Dr. Andy Roark: This is an old, this is an old big
Dr. Mary Gardner: Is an old man.
Dr. Andy Roark: For a big dog, this is an old man. All right, I just wanted to flesh that out.
Dr. Mary Gardner: Totally. And he, I actually used this story in one of my lectures. And so I’m sort of doing parallel conversations here with you. So actually years later, I was telling the same story to a group of veterinarians and it was in Texas.
And I didn’t say it was my dog, I just said it was a 10 year old Doberman who here would even discuss tie-back surgery and only 2 people in a room of 80 raised their hands. So I’m like, no, let me repeat that. Like who here would just, talk, like give it as the option. And again, only two people.
And I said, why not? And they said, He’s an old dog and the risk of aspiration pneumonia is too high. And it just boggled my mind at that time that nobody would even consider it. And it was something that I had done. And then of course the reveal was it was my dog that I’m having this conversation about.
So back to 2014, I absolutely did the tie back. And during post surgery, he actually did have aspiration pneumonia because he vomited. From like morphine or whatever they had given him. So this is again, 2014 and so that, that is a risk, but he survived it and he was fine and he did great. Andy, like he was fine years, you know, a year or two later, I started to see then this neuropathy happened in the, in his backend.
And I was doing you know, I was researching all of this and that’s when I learned more about GOLPP than just LARPAR. And so he’s the thing that started my he, him having it is the reason why I love it so much because it was such a big a part of my life and treatment with him. He ended up dying of DCM years later.
So he did get DCM, but that’s why he passed.
Dr. Andy Roark: How did you feel about that? Are you like, it’s a heartbreak, or are you like, I called it. I called it really early. I was
Dr. Mary Gardner: So long ago.
Dr. Andy Roark: I had,
Dr. Mary Gardner: No,
Dr. Andy Roark: Long ago, I knew this was gonna happen.
Dr. Mary Gardner: I know. You know, it’s one of the things, you love a certain breed and you know what it comes with, right? Like, so I know, but he was 13. So I got, like, almost 3 years after a tieback with him where so many people would have, It would have been a few months and then I would have had to euthanize him.
So, that’s how it started.
Dr. Andy Roark: Well, you know, I love that you tell this story and you and I have talked about this before with your work with Lap of Love Pet Hospice and things and you and I are both we’re both on the advisory board for the Gray Muzzle Organization it says this is a group that we both care about and it’s glad we get to do this stuff together I saw this case and it was a dog had a splenic mass and he’s my neighbor’s dog.
His name is Copper. And he’s like a ten, ten and a half year old sort of coon hound dog. Not a small dog. And so I had that talk with him. You know what I mean? When you’re like, well, you know, it’s probably two thirds chance it’s going to be malignant and one third it’s benign. And, you know, this is kind of how it goes.
And, you know, kind of what do you want to do? And I guess I was kind of trying to cushion the blow. You know, if they were going to say, well, you didn’t do it and they were like, no, he’s been a great dog. We’re gonna do this thing and sure enough. It’s benign. They take it out That dog is stealing food from me at cookouts like he sees me.
He’s like that guy’s a sucker You know what I mean? And like he tell you but like boy, I mean you start thinking about you like a couple of years you know sometimes I wrote an article about it, and I called it, Sometimes It’s Worth the Risk. And it’s like, sometimes we go with it, and it’s just, sometimes it’s just worth it.
Dr. Mary Gardner: It’s worth it.
Dr. Andy Roark: I think it’s easy to, like, write that off, and like, I think we kind of guard ourselves by being a little dark or cynical. But man, sometimes it’s totally worth it. Okay, so you go through this
Dr. Mary Gardner: Now, hold on. On that, I’m sorry to Like, at what point is it not worth it, right? Like, is it six months? Is it a year? If you think about chemo, how many times do we do chemo and it’s just to get a few months or you amputate a dog with osteosarcoma, like that’s to relieve the pain, but you’re not taking away his cancer.
And so is that worth it? Right? And the one thing I just say, while I’m just honest is no judgment because there’s not one right answer. So it’s okay not to, but what I don’t want to do is, you know, everyone says old age is not a disease, but old age is not an excuse. And so, like, It doesn’t mean just because he was 10 that we shouldn’t do it because if he had six great months of breathing okay but then got hit by a car or something like that.
I’d still be happy I did it
Dr. Andy Roark: I love that. I just, I think that’s an important point. I’m just glad, I was just glad to see that. I love that you had a sort of happy outcome of saying, he’s ten. Well, I mean, that’s why I sort of set it up as a ten year old Doberman, and then you go, Oh, well, we’re gonna do this thing. It’s not a small undertaking.
And then three more years, and, you know, it’s that quality of life, quantity of life thing, too, where, it’s not that he stayed alive for three years, it’s that he
Dr. Mary Gardner: He was good. Yeah, right.
Dr. Andy Roark: Sleep, and breathe, and like, that’s a significant difference. So anyway. So, so I love that.
So you go have this experience. Alright. So, so I’m looking at this. You know, I know you’re interested in quality of life. I know you’re interested in seeing your pets. So you go through this experience yourself. And then talk to me a little bit about the realization you sort of had or sort of your experience around this where you started to feel like this is something that needs more light on it.
Because that’s kind of what I got from you at VMX when you were talking about doing this workshop and things. So, so help, me get my head around like. The need you saw in the larger profession or what that kind of looks like.
Dr. Mary Gardner: Yeah. Well, I think because we laugh a lot of them and I go euthanize so many animals in their home So many are because of because of mobility issues and so many are middle sized dogs. So 60, 70, 80 pound dogs, like that’s our bread and butter, let’s say, right? It’s mobility issues, you know, large, medium, large dogs and so many I’d go to and now they’re not in the emergency situation, right?
Which what is what GP normally sees is that the dog is under emergency, but here’s a dog that has bilateral muscle atrophy. They’ve got weakness. It’s clearly neurological on the back end. They’re saying, yeah, he’s, kind of snoring more. He’s having some breathing, you know, struggling and his bark has changed.
And I’m like, this is freaking LARPAR. Like, and, I was just seeing it so much, but nobody ever talked to them about it.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah.
Dr. Mary Gardner: And then again, at the same time, I had this, you know, lecture in, in Texas where everybody’s like, it’s too old of a dog. We wouldn’t do it. And it, was just like. But we can help so many and the families want to do it.
So it was probably in 2020, maybe I I did a Facebook live with this surgeon, Dr. Bryden Stanley, who is the, like the godmother of GOLPP. And we did it for like, it was an hour long conversation. I just, I asked her everything, meds, da, and thousands of people have watched it. Hundreds of people reach out to me and these are pet owners and they send me videos of their dog and they’re like, my vet doesn’t know what it is or my, he, you know, they, say, don’t do the risk, but I think I want to do the surgery.
And you know, it’s, I of course always walk a very fine line to never throw any vet under the bus, but I always say, go, just go to a surgeon and get, you know, here’s the statistics because now I know the statistics really well. And so it’s just. Now my passion project to educate everybody in the veterinary field about it.
And I love it. So, you know, when we went to vet school, it was called idiopathic laryngeal paralysis.
And we didn’t know that actually there was a connection to the polyneuropathy. And this is where I think if a pet does even go for the tie back surgery, they need care with their veterinarian and rehab and stuff like that, because it’s more than just a tie back, it’s a whole like.
You know, big thing, and that’s where GOLPP, so that’s geriatric onset poly laryngeal paralysis and polyneuropathy has came, has come in, and that’s, so Dr. Stanley is the one who found that connection.
Dr. Andy Roark: Let’s go ahead and start to talk about let’s start to talk about GOLPP a little bit here because when we started talking about the tieback and managing these cases, you know you do not fancy yourself a surgeon unless things have radically changed
Dr. Mary Gardner: No, I’ve not blossomed, no.
Dr. Andy Roark: I was say I was like, wow, it just, you do a lot of things, you do a lot of interesting things. Surgery was not one of them that I had on my bingo card for you, but, given that you’re very interested in this, topic of like, so, so talk to me about the interface here. So, so without making this into a surgery podcast,
Dr. Mary Gardner: Oh god no, which it won’t be,
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah, which is why the blind leading the blind in, in that regard.
Hey guys, I just want to talk to you real quick about the Uncharted Roadshow in Atlanta. I am going to be there with Stephanie Goss and Maria Parita and Tyler Grogan and we are going to be doing the Uncharted Leadership Essentials Certificate. That is, uh, it is two days, it is 14 hours of race CE. You heard that right, it’s packed in there.
It is workshop style CE. We will be doing understanding the trust economy. We’ll be doing strategic planning, vision and values. We’ll be doing communication styles, feedback and coaching, achieving team buy in, setting priorities, getting priorities done. That means holding people accountable and setting timelines and deadlines.
We’re going to be doing all of that stuff. You are going to be, uh, drinking from the fire hose and it is all about you actually getting the skills. As I said, it is very, very, very very hands on, you are not going to be sitting and getting lectured at. You are going to learn, you are going to be a different and better leader when you leave than when you arrived.
That is a Sunday and a Monday in May, as I said the 5th and 6th in Atlanta. Grab yourself a spot, they are going to sell out, um, I would love to see you there. Alright, let’s get back into this episode.
Dr. Andy Roark: So talk to me a bit about, GOLPP. Talk to me about, surgery as a tool. And if surgery is a tool, Mary, what are the sort of the other tools in the toolbox? What does this overall management of this condition look like in your mind when it’s done exceptionally well?
Dr. Mary Gardner: Oh God, this is the most amazing question. Okay, so,
Dr. Andy Roark: Why, thank you! know, I work hard.
I take notes ahead of time. Like I prep,
Dr. Mary Gardner: I love Prepping.
So, well actually, you know, let’s step back. I think about Duncan and his clearing of his throat, right? Everybody assumes that’s like a tickle in his larynx or something like that. That was actually because he was having, you know, regurge. So, so, you know, like almost like acid reflux.
Because that comes oftentimes in parallel with, GOLPP, with the laryngeal paralysis. So basically and this is definitely not surgery, definitely not a anatomy class here, but the a laryngeal nerve actually is what the problem is with the larynx. But it’s also all kind of connected to the esophagus.
And so they will have esophageal mobility issues. And that’s why they’ll have little acid reflux. Some of them so much that they vomit often or regurge often. And so it’s not just from the surgery or the tieback that they could have aspiration. It’s because of their vomiting. Like that’s why, because they may vomit or have that regurge or they eat too fast and they have a tieback or drink too fast.
But it’s a risk factor even for dogs that don’t have a tieback. And I don’t think people understand that we have to actually help them with their regurg also because it’s gonna, it’s gonna happen. And then what, what also happens is that they will get a polyneuropathy, neuropathy. So their back end is going to start to toe drag, get weak, all those things.
So historically, when we in GP get a LARPAR case in, it’s on emergency, right? So we are just hoping that they can breathe. We’re not doing a full neurological exam. And half these dogs are like, You know, basically unconscious. Anyway, we give him some ace. So you’re not doing a good neurological exam. So we never actually knew that the polyneuropathy was, there.
And but many already started to have a little, you know, CP deficits and things like that. So, Dr. Bryden was actually doing research on the esophageal problem with, larpar. So that’s what she was studying. And when she had all these dogs coming in that were in her case, she was doing a full neurological exam.
And she’s like, wow, all these dogs also have polyneuropathy, you know, this neuropathy in the back end. So it was because she was able to do a really good full exam is how she made this connection to it all. So really the optimal thing if you’ve got a breathing disorder is to do the tie back and a problem is that there’s not, it could be expensive for a family, there may not be a surgeon locally, there may not be a surgeon eight hours from them, right?
And so that’s, also an issue. It also may be an emergent situation where it could be something that we need to do in a day or two and not wait for five weeks to get to see the surgeon that, you know, the boarded surgeon. So then, so, so all these things are, happening of course, so regardless of surgical intervention, you will, you need to manage the esophageal problem and you also need to manage that, polyneuropathy.
And it’s no NSAIDs, it’s nothing like that. It’s, it is, you know, physical therapy is the biggest help and then environmental management and harnesses and stuff like that. So that, like in in a high level nutshell is, GOLPP and. with the surgery. So many people are nervous about recommending it because of the risk.
However, the risk that here’s the big thing is that anesthesia for the surgery is very important. Technically, this isn’t a, this isn’t a difficult surgery on the pet, right? You’re not going into the, a spay is worse, right? You’re good. It’s a soft tissue. It’s a tiny little incision. It’s soft tissue.
It’s in the neck. It’s two stitches. Close it, you know, for the tie back, then you’ve got some skin, you know, whatever sutures, an ice pack. It doesn’t need morphine. It doesn’t need all these things that, this is why there was so much aspiration after surgery is because we were over anesthetizing them. So that’s why for this workshop I did at VMX we had Sheilah Robertson, our good, you know, friend talk about anesthesia.
And, it’s only about 8 percent of a risk factor for aspiration pneumonia. And I always say it’s a hundred percent risk for asphyxiation, so I would much rather take an eight percent risk than a hundred percent risk. But and they might be a it might be a 14 year old lab. Do you do it?
Guess what? If you get six more months, like it doesn’t matter if they don’t want to do it or they want to do it, but I don’t think we should make that decision for our families. And I’ve done studies, I’ve done surveys of over 800 families and about half and half did the tie back and didn’t. And it’s about 50 percent did not get the advice of their, from their veterinarian about the tie back.
They found it on their own. And we absolutely should give the option for those families. But anyway, so that’s where I get so kind of worked up on it is because there are people that are not getting this information and they would do the tieback or then they need to learn about physical therapy and, knowing how, to, how should your dog eat?
You know, should it be a raised bowl or not? All these things.
Dr. Andy Roark: Talk, talk to me a little bit. I know we don’t have a ton of time.
Dr. Mary Gardner: I know. Sorry.
Dr. Andy Roark: But if, no, I love it. If, I was talking to a pet owner and I was like, “Hey, you know, this is, an option. This is what I’m seeing. This is kind of how it progresses. You know, there is surgical intervention.”
We sort of gracefully talk about that and kind of, you know, what does that look like for you? Is that something we want to explore a little bit? And they said, well, okay. So what is our life like? After the surgery. Talk to me a little bit about in sort of those terms sort of at the high level.
Frame up for me what the commitment for physical therapy and the environmental management would look like. How much do you share with the pet owners kind of in the moment of what that looks like?
Dr. Mary Gardner: Yeah. You know, it’s funny is, I think we recommend amputation of an osteosarc way more than we recommend a tieback, right? And,
Dr. Andy Roark: Probably true.
Dr. Mary Gardner: right, yet
Dr. Andy Roark: Oh.
Dr. Mary Gardner: You manage a hundred pound Rottweiler that’s just had his leg amputated, that’s difficult. Like, that’s a lot of care at home, where this is not so much.
So, there’s should we change the feeding and water habits? Yes, we need to slow them down. So there’s slow, waters water bowls. Should they feed raised bowls? Actually not a raised bowl. They should be on an incline. So that way they’re slow. That’s how they should be fed because it’s gravity, right?
Like all these things, it’s, not just a raised bowl. That doesn’t do anything. We need to get them on an incline. And then. And, you know, talk to the owner that probably the vast majority of pets will have a neuropathy, start of a neuropathy at least within a year from diagnosis. Duncan took a little longer because I think I noticed him sooner.
I was like, whoa, that’s a cough, right? Owners don’t think, we, I went a little crazy. So, within the year, you’re going to have a 60, 70 pound dog that may have trouble walking. And that means yoga mats around your house. Here’s the help them up harness. Here’s some physical therapy exercises. And it’s probably about 18 to two years out that they live, but it’s, because we’re already starting at 12.
The average pet is getting it done at 12. So you’re talking about labs that are probably going to die towards 14. Regardless, there’s a million other things that they might be getting also, so I don’t think, but the neuropathy does become a big issue and I think it’s very important to talk to owners whether or not they do the tieback that because they may have a dog that has some respiratory issues, but it’s okay. They’re managing it well. They’re in air conditioning. They’re in a cold area. They don’t, you know, exert themselves. They’re a couch potato and you know, they’re, it’s not that bad, but they’re going to get the neuropathy also. And that’s where it starts to be a caregiver burden. And it was for, I wouldn’t say a burden.
I would do it all day long for Duncan. And I just, I can’t tell you any, how many hundreds of people have emailed me about this. It’s crazy.
Dr. Andy Roark: Oh, I’m sure. I think that, I’m trying to think back to where my sort of ideas around this procedure come from? I feel like, and you, were there, we were there together in the same class, but I feel like the whole aspiration pneumonia was beaten pretty soundly into me. I don’t know if it was, I think it was one of those things where like, if I saw a test question that had laryngeal tieback, the question was going to be, or the answer was going to be aspiration pneumonia.
You know what I mean? Like it was, that it
Dr. Mary Gardner: and it was 30 percent risk then, but that’s because of like the anesthesia that they’re doing back then, right? So we could do it so much better, so much more simple. We don’t need massive pain. They don’t need to be on morphine. It’s, not that bad, right? So it’s better to have them alert and not, you know, all drugged up.
So I think you’re right. That was 100 percent when me and you were in it it,that’s what we were taught.
Dr. Andy Roark: Well, I was trying to remember why I had that thought, because I’ll be honest, like, it’s just not, it’s not a procedure that’s really kind of been on my radar. I haven’t looked at a dog that’s struggling and been like, well, I’m not gonna say anything. But I’m like, why isn’t this, why didn’t this come to my hand faster?
As I, I think that when we were going through it, the risk really was taught as being quite high. And I was like, boy, this is kind of a last resort, is how I had it filed in my mind. I think you, I’m glad you’re talking about this. I know you and I had talked earlier and you said that you’re going pretty.
pretty hard on this. You’re putting together. Talk to me about the website that you’re sort of putting together. You sort of mentioned that you were sort of putting together resources and you wanted to make this really accessible. what’s your plan with that?
Dr. Mary Gardner: it is just my passion plan. So I’ve got, it’s been totally self funded. It’s called all, all about GOLPP. So, allaboutgolpp.com and it’s for both the pet parents and the veterinarians out there. So I wanted it to be like a one stop shop of education. For the pet owners. So what is it?
What are risk factors? You know, medications. Cause there’s doxepin discussion. Like, should we use that? and, no, don’t waste your time on that. You know, things, like that. I’ve also got a veterinary section. So it’s got how to diagnose what are the signs. non surgical options. And then there’s a whole set of resources.
So there’s handouts for veterinarians. We’ve got history handout. We’ve got an oral exam handout for them. We’ve got client education handouts, all free on the website. And then the biggest thing is just these rehab videos that I made with Dr. Carolina Medina. If you remember her from UF and the acupuncture service.
And so we made about 11 different rehab videos for just exercises at home that aren’t a big struggle for, it’s not like go run agility. This is, you know, the cookie stretch and the incline stand, you know, stuff like that. So, it’s got all the resources and lists of the boarded veterinarians out there, the list of the rehab facilities.
And yeah, so it’s just, my goal is that it’s the one stop shop for people to get educated on both, pets and vets, both pet owners and vets.
Dr. Andy Roark: You know, it’s funny. I, as I’ve come along in my life, I have come to really appreciate stories and examples that illustrate who people are. And so I always think it’s this beautiful thing. If you can reach into your pocket and kind of pull out a story or an example about someone who sort of encapsulates who they are and.
One of my favorite stories about you is this one, where it’s like, you’re the person who gets excited about something that they care about, and you don’t post it on Facebook, like, you’re like, nope, we’re, and you make, you launch an empire and crusade, and you’re building, there’s gonna be a GOLPP app, that you’re gonna, like, that
Dr. Mary Gardner: Wait, yes. I would love that. Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark: I see you running across a professional sporting event with like a banner behind you before security tackles you that says “Ask your vet about GOLPP.” I mean, it’s just,
Dr. Mary Gardner: I like that.
Dr. Andy Roark: You get these passion projects and
Dr. Mary Gardner: I do.
Dr. Andy Roark: And you go with them and you do such great stuff. And I don’t think you get enough credit for all the work that you do for our profession.
But anyway, I, love you buddy. I’m so glad you do this.
Dr. Mary Gardner: I love you too.
Dr. Andy Roark: I really appreciate you coming and sharing with us. So cool. Mary Gardner, besides the website
Dr. Mary Gardner: Oh God,
Dr. Andy Roark: and all the resources, where can people find you online if they want to follow your, if they want to follow your adventures, where can they find you?
Dr. Mary Gardner: So my, personal adventures are at Dr. Mary Gardner. So Dr. Mary Gardner, and I’m on Instagram and Facebook and I, you know, my shenanigans are out there and I will post about this in a couple of weeks when I’m you know, ready to, but it’s it’s been fun. So you can follow me there.
Dr. Andy Roark: Very nice. Cool. Take care, everybody. We’ll talk to you later.
Dr. Mary Gardner: Bye.
Dr. Andy Roark: And that’s what I got guys. That’s that’s my talk with Mary Gardner. Thank you to her for being here. Thank you to you for also being here.
Thank you to me for I’m here as well. Like we all need praise sometimes like we all want to feel appreciated and so i’m appreciating myself. Anyway, guys, if you enjoyed the podcast send it to your friends if you’re like, I don’t have any friends to send it to but I want but I really liked it you can just go and leave me an honest review wherever you get your podcast that’s super helpful as well Anyway, that’s enough. That’s enough of this. Let me let you go so you can get out there and do good in the world. All right. I’ll see you guys soon. Bye