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Perspective

Does it ever feel like the world is getting too big?

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One of my favorite ideas from the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy is that of the Total Perspective Vortex (TPV). In the book, the TPV was a machine built to show beings a glimpse of the infinity of creation… and it’s used as the ultimate torture device. Human’s brains, it seems, are not meant to process the expanse of the universe. I find the idea that knowing how tiny we are in the universe would be the ultimate torture is darkly funny.

Recently, however, I’ve been feeling a bit like we are all plugged into the TPV and someone is slowly turning up the wattage. We are living in a world where information seems to flow into our eyes and ears faster and faster. More things pop up with breaking news alerts, attention-grabbing chimes or text messages than ever before. More and more screens and streams vie for our limited attention. Short, looping videos that we can swipe through increase the breadth of information we take in by reducing the depth. 

You know what makes this expanded view of the world troubling? For me, it’s the feeling that we are seeing more and more of our world… while the number of things we can control doesn’t budge. We’re not just seeing, hearing and knowing an ever-increasing amount… we’re seeing, hearing and knowing an ever-increasing amount of things that we have absolutely no control over. 

A bigger world with no more control can make us feel less important and empowered. It can make us feel like we are a drop of water tossed around in an increasingly vast ocean, and you know what? That’s a lonely, frustrating way to feel.

I think these feelings of powerlessness may be why people seem to be acting meaner than ever before. Rude behaviors in public, mistreatment of people doing customer service work, aggressive driving… couldn’t it all be a product of people feeling that the world has gotten so big that they desperately need to find a way to show they still have some control? 

Could people be more likely to break rules or hurt others when they feel a need to prove to themselves (and the world) that they are not inconsequential or that they still have some power? Could the epidemic of loneliness be related to feeling smaller and smaller in an expanding world?

To be clear, I think there has never been a more exciting time to be alive. Our ability to learn and connect is incredible and growing by the day. I also think that the potential to feel like we’re in the Total Perspective Vortex, that we are so small in a world that is so large and beyond our control, is more real today than ever.

Going forward, let’s remember that it’s not wrong to be selective about what information we take in. Surviving in a world of limitless noise and knowledge will almost certainly involve making choices about what we spend our emotional energy on, and how much time we spend just gazing at the outlets that would like to have our attention. We have the power to step out of the TPV, or to turn its wattage back down for ourselves.

Sometimes, it’s worth the effort to turn off all the noise and focus exclusively on the things we can control: The work we do with our hands, the relationships we have without screens, and the impact we make on those around us. If you’re feeling overwhelmed, maybe it’s not you. Maybe the world is just too big and it’s time to take back our focus and put it where it matters most. Right in front of us.

The Right Number of Disasters

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I was recently listening to an interview where an economist was criticizing the way modern media reports the news. He said that the mainstream media tends to grab onto a disaster, thrust it into the national spotlight and then ask the question “how do we prevent this from happening again?!”

The economist said this behavior is misguided because some disasters need to happen and trying to eliminate them shouldn’t be an aspiration. The example he gave is this:

Let’s say that you have a house that collapses in an earthquake and some people get hurt or even killed. Some might ask the question, “how do we make it so that no houses ever collapse in earthquakes?” The problem with this question is that we don’t want to have a society where no house ever falls down in an earthquake. The number of building restrictions, the amount of building materials and the enormous cost of making every building earthquake proof would be astronomical. Housing costs would skyrocket.

Obviously, we also don’t want a society where lots of houses fall down whenever there is an earthquake. That would mean that we are under-regulating and monitoring residential building, and that we aren’t valuing the safety of our citizens. 

We should be aspiring, according to the economist, to not have too many or too few houses falling down in earthquakes. A healthy society will have the “right number of disasters.”

Similarly, if we had a society where no crime happened, we would have to be living in the most controlling, invasive police state the world has ever seen. Think about it, to have zero crime, there would have to be complete surveillance, the harshest of punishments, and dogmatic commitment to law and order by at least the vast majority of citizens. It sounds like a nightmare.

Saying that a society with no crime doesn’t make sense does not, of course, mean that we want crime. It also doesn’t mean we think crime is something we should ignore. It’s simply an acceptance of the idea that the tradeoff for letting people have freedom is dealing with the fallouts of personal freedom that we don’t necessarily like.

The basic premise here is that acting like disasters should never happen is a mistake. So is pretending disasters don’t matter. The balance, it seems, should come from asking ourselves: “do we have the right number of disasters?”

We want some houses to fall down in earthquakes because that means we haven’t gotten completely out of control with building costs and regulations, and we want some amount of crime to happen because that means people still have freedom. 

Likewise, in our clinics, if no one ever gets angry about the price of services we probably aren’t charging enough to run a healthy practice. If no one ever fails to follow a set protocol, then I question whether people are actually thinking about the specific case in front of them. If no patient ever dies in surgery, then are we pushing ourselves to save as many lives as possible?

Things SHOULD go wrong in practice. They shouldn’t go wrong in great numbers, and the same thing certainly shouldn’t go wrong over and over. However, there absolutely must be disasters in a healthy practice. Here, just like in the media, asking what we can do to eliminate problems is generally the wrong approach. The right one is about asking ourselves “are we having the right number of disasters?”

An Honest Look at What We’re Thankful For

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I’ve seen more than a few shocked faces as I, the guy known for holding the torch of positivity in veterinary medicine, tell people that “life is suffering.” If you’ve listened to my podcasts or read my articles, you’ve heard me tell people that medicine (and management) is simply picking your poison over and over again. One of my favorite quotes centers on the idea that no one, and I mean no one, can escape pain, uncertainty, and hard work. Not exactly the mantra that people expect from the smiling, laughing guy who loves his job.

I think that there is a perception that being positive (or grateful) is about fooling yourself. It’s about refusing to see challenges and hardships, or at least to discount the impact these difficulties have on us. I do think there is power in “choosing happy” and I reject the idea that looking on the bright side always constitutes “toxic positivity.” That idea is simply a cudgel the cynical like to wield against the optimistic.

The healthiest view of the world I have found is a balance between optimism and a pragmatic, honest look at the challenges we are destined to face in this life.

Pretending that hardship isn’t all around us or that the world is fair doesn’t make much sense. Neither does wallowing in the knowledge that we have very limited control over much of our lives and death comes for us all. A balance between these mindsets, however, can be a thing of beauty.

As I reflect on what I’m thankful for this holiday season, my list looks different than it has in the past. Yes, I’m thankful for my family and interpersonal relationships, and I’m optimistic about my chances of deepening and strengthening those bonds in the coming year. I’m thankful for our profession and to have work that I find meaningful and rewarding. I think veterinary medicine has a bright future, and I’m genuinely excited to see where it is going.

At the same time, my list is balanced by a more clear-eyed perspective on how fragile life can be, and a knowledge that hardships inevitably await us all on the road ahead. I’m grateful that my family is healthy. That gratitude is deepened, not diminished, by the fact that one year ago my wife was beginning radiation therapy for breast cancer. I am proud of what my business has done and is doing, and that pride is stronger because we have faced setbacks, suffered failures, and navigated uncertainty. I cherish the laughter around me, because I have seen a lot of tears.

Today, I am more grateful for what I have than ever before. It’s a deep, rich gratitude that I think comes not from blocking out everything but the positive, but by truly seeing the difficulties, learning to accept them, and then looking towards the future with an intentional and dedicated optimism.

My wife is healthy. My children are safe. My job is rewarding. My business is a success in the ways that truly matter. I feel thankfulness for these truths in my bones because I know they are not guaranteed.

What are you thankful for?

Those You Know, But Don’t Know

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When I used to drop my kids off at daycare, my primary focus was ejecting the children from my car so I could get on to my mile long to-do list. Screeching tires, flying gravel and… was that a little girl wearing a halloween costume in March? I passed through the parking lot as quickly as possible.

From an efficiency standpoint, this was great. I was knocking things off the list and making stuff happen! From a relationship-with-daycare-workers-and-other-parents, it was pretty bad.

Relationships are funny and fickle things. You can’t put them on a checklist and mark them off. You can’t show up, say a compliment and walk away. No matter how charming you are or how much corporate communication training you’ve had, building relationships takes time. It requires doing the work to know another person. Putting in the time of simply being together. There are no shortcuts.

I spent years as a veterinarian ducking into and out of exam rooms like a game show contestant navigating an obstacle course. I took great care of pet owners and pushed appointments quickly and efficiently. But at the end of the day, when my technicians would go home, I had no idea where they went. I didn’t know what they did, or who met them when they got home.

I knew the people I worked with, but I didn’t really KNOW them. I knew their competencies and behaviors. I knew their quirks and what made them laugh. I didn’t know, however, what they cared about, how they thought, or what they aspired to become in the future. I didn’t know what they wanted to accomplish before they died, what their most meaningful life experience had been, or what made them proud at the end of the day.

I regret not knowing those things. 

I think a lot of us believe we don’t have better relationships with the people around us because we don’t have time to build those relationships. I’m not so sure that’s true. Recently I’ve been pondering the idea that maybe it’s not time that holds us back. Maybe it’s a lack of curiosity. Maybe we forget to wonder about people we see everyday. Or maybe we’re just too shy to ask people about themselves.

In my experience, most people are thrilled to have someone want to know more about them. They smile and open up. They feel special and seen. Asking deeper questions so we can better know others isn’t a weird thing in practice. Instead it’s usually a path to deeper, more trusting relationships. 

Who do you know, but don’t really know? What could you ask them today to start to make that journey?

Perception: It’s All How You Look At It

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Today I am thrilled with my dog. I am so, so happy. Do you want to know why? Because he only destroyed a very nice pair of socks belonging to my oldest daughter. 

For those of you who have been reading my letters for a while, you might remember that Skipper Roark is a devout anarchist. He lives life to the fullest and has no interest in joining the brainwashed “good dog tribe” that he hears me talking about every day I visit the clinic. He lives by his own rules… and Skipper hates rules.

Anyway, the socks he ruined were brand new and quite nice. He tore them to shreds while I was running errands with the kids. You might think this would make me angry or upset, but I’m not at all.

The reason I’m thrilled is because my daughter (whose dirty laundry was raided) was absolutely certain that Skipper had eaten at least one pair of underwear while on his rampage. We searched the area and… there was no underwear to be found. She was certain her underwear had been in the hamper… but “there’s none there now.”

I suddenly became absolutely certain that we were headed to surgery. It might involve the emergency clinic that night or our clinic in the morning, but surgery felt imminent. I started questioning whether it was worth trying to find someone who could scope him at 9pm. Guilt (I’m pretty sure I was the last one to close the laundry room door), logistics and medical expenses flooded my mind.

And then… My daughter found the underwear. It was rolled up in other laundry and well-hidden until her final, last ditch effort to set her father’s mind at ease.

Immediately I began praising bad dog Skipper. I hugged him and texted my wife (who is traveling and had no idea any of this was happening): “SKIPPER DIDN’T EAT ANY UNDERWEAR! HE’S A GOOD BOY!”

My wife’s response was nowhere close to as positive as mine. She responded “Well, did he eat something else?!” and was not happy about the socks. To be honest, I think she was even more irritated that I didn’t seem to remotely care about expensive hosiery being trashed.

And that’s the thing about perception. If someone tells you your dog destroyed socks, that would bother you. But if someone tells you your dog is headed to surgery and then says “Oh wait! We’re okay! He just destroyed socks!” you’re probably over the moon.

Hardship in life is often this way. When bad stuff happens, it’s not toxic positivity to try to look at things a different way. It’s just adjusting your perspective to make life a little easier.

Choosing the Rulers We Measure Ourselves By

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Jamie Holms RVT interviews Dr. Andy Roark about his recent article in Today’s Veterinary Business titled “Measuring Sticks.” They discuss how we determine our own self worth and the tendency for driven people to choose unhelpful and unhealthy measurements by which to judge themselves.

You can also listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Soundcloud, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts!

LINKS

ARTICLE: Measuring Sticks

Dr. Andy Roark Resources 

Dr. Andy Roark Exam Room Communication Tool Box Team Training Course

Dr. Andy Roark Charming the Angry Client Team Training Course

Dr. Andy Roark Swag

ABOUT OUR GUEST

Jamie Holms RVT is a new chicken mom and the Administrative Manager for Dr. Andy Roark, Uncharted Veterinary Conferences. Jamie is passionate about helping the people who are helping pets and is a firm believer that the future of the veterinary profession is bright. Jamie is obsessed with baby goats, axolotls, hedgehogs, tea, plants (especially hoyas), kindle books, food, and sleep – not necessarily in that order.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome everybody to the Cone of Shame veterinary podcast. I am your host, Dr. Andy Roark. Guys, I got my good friend Jamie Holms on the episode. Jamie Holms is RVT. She’s a dear friend of mine. She’s the first employee I ever hired. We go way back. We go back like popsicles on the porch in summertime. That’s how we go back. All that to say, I’ve known Jamie a long time. And when I write articles that really speak to her, she often says, “Hey, can we do a podcast on that article?” And I have an article called Measuring Sticks about how we measure ourselves, how we determine our own worth. And I think a lot of us really driven people have a bad habit of choosing measurements that are unattainable. We measure ourselves in ways that are not healthy, they’re not productive, they make us feel bad. They don’t really motivate us in any sort of way that is sustainable.
And I think that we all should probably take a step back and just unravel the self-talk that we have around what gives us worth and what gives us value, and how do we measure ourselves and how do we measure success. And so anyway, that’s what we get into. If that sounds of interest, then you’ll like this episode. But anyway, Jamie comes on and we talk about the article and I kind of laid down a lot of thoughts about that. So anyway, guys, I hope you’ll enjoy this episode. Always makes me a little self-conscious to get interviewed on my own stuff, on my own podcast, but I don’t know, I write things that I think are interesting and that really speak to me and this is something I’ve been really thinking a lot about. And so anyway, I was really excited when Jamie said, “Hey, I really like that. Maybe we could talk about it.” So I hope you’ll enjoy the conversation. I think it’s a good one. Let’s get into it and see what you think.

Kelsey Beth Carpenter:
(singing) This is your show. We’re glad you’re here. We want to help you in your veterinary career. Welcome to the Cone of Shame with Dr. Andy Roark.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome to the podcast, Jamie Holms. Thanks for being here.

Jamie Holms:
Oh, I’m so happy to be here. Thanks for having me again.

Dr. Andy Roark:
I always enjoy having you on the podcast. For those who do not know you, you and I have worked together forever. It feels like you were employee number @drandyroark.com.

Jamie Holms:
Before you.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Before me, exactly. You hired me on @drandyroark.com and it worked out really well because that was my name and it went great. You are an RVT. We were just laughing that you are a rivett and not a live it.

Jamie Holms:
So true.

Dr. Andy Roark:
So true. You are the administrative manager for drandywork.com and Uncharted Veterinary Conference. And so that’s who you are. You babysit my tomato plants when I travel in the summer and sometimes my bad golden doodle skipper.

Jamie Holms:
He’s not bad. He’s misunderstood and he loves me so much.

Dr. Andy Roark:
He does love you a lot. According to behaviorist Lisa Radosta, he has low confidence, is his problem.

Jamie Holms:
I love that that’s how we ended up here. That’s so funny because I wanted to talk about this article and I told you I wanted to talk about this article and I was like, I think I’m going to lead in with talking about Skipper and his confidence issue.

Dr. Andy Roark:
His confidence issue. Okay, fine.

Jamie Holms:
So this is perfect.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay. So I have a goldendoodle named Skipper who is just as a side, he’s not what you would call a good dog. He lives his truth openly and it’s not one of obedience and the thrill of making his owner happy, but he’s his own person and he does have a trait that drives me nuts as he’ll piddle on the floor when people come over or he gets excited. And so I talked to Dr. Lisa Radosta, she’s coming onto the podcast and I had her on to talk about inner cat aggression or something, and I did that thing where I was like, hey, while you’re here, can I ask you about a case? And I told her about Skipper and she asked me a bunch of questions about what he does with his ears and how he sort of behaves.
And the takeaway I think from her not really getting to see him was she thinks that this is sort of a conflict response and that he has confidence issues and that’s why he meets people in piddles. And so I have been trying to work on my golden doodles confidence and it is the most ridiculous project I have ever gone on. But I don’t know, I’m just going to stop and say I do not know if we are making progress. For three or four, five days I’m like, we’re nailing this and then there’s just a setback. And I’m just like, his confidence is it cannot be saved, I don’t think if he’s not a confident guy.

Jamie Holms:
Well, I love this for a lot of reasons. One is that, I don’t know if you know this, but my nickname is Walnut.

Dr. Andy Roark:
I did not know this.

Jamie Holms:
That is not because I am a tough nut to crack. It is because I have a very tiny bladder and I maybe eat abruptly the size of a walnut. And so I always need to pee. And the moment you-

Dr. Andy Roark:
Do you get excited and pee? Do you pee when you meet new people?

Jamie Holms:
I need to pee when I meet new people. I have better bladder control than Skipper does, but that doesn’t make me a better person.

Dr. Andy Roark:
But you have more confidence, I think.

Jamie Holms:
I have more lived experience than Skipper does, but I definitely, the moment someone is like, your flight is going to board in 15 minutes, I’m like, I got to pee. And then they’re like, the flight is now now boarding, I’m like, I have to pee again.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, I get that.

Jamie Holms:
It’s just how it is. And so I have a lot of empathy for his situation. But it made me think about confidence and I can think about times when I’m really confident, but that made me go well, when am I really insecure? And so I was thinking about that. And so I wanted to start with the deep question. So Andy Roark, tell me what makes you feel insecure?

Dr. Andy Roark:
Oh boy. What does make me feel insecure? Let’s see. Anytime that I feel like I’m not going to live up to the expectation that people have of me, I get insecure anytime that people are like, I feel like people expect something from me that I’m not going to be able to do, I’m much more worried about letting people down than I am not being able to do the thing, whatever the thing is. And so I am definitely insecure about that and singing. I can’t carry a tune in a bucket, and I am very insecure about singing, but I enjoy it when nobody’s around. But those are my two things. Singing and when people feel like they have expectations of me that I don’t think that I’m going to be able to meet.

Jamie Holms:
So I get a huge gift out of working with you, which is I get to read the articles before anybody else does. And so I was really excited when I read this Measuring Sticks article, which went out in Today’s Veterinary Business, and it’s about how we use all of these, especially in the veterinary profession, all of these things from the outside to judge our self-worth and our confidence. You talk about the SATs and your test scores and how people continue to look for that test to take or that new accreditation to get. And I was thinking about that with this, and I love that you are like, yes, I’m in it. I also get insecure when I think I’m not going to live up to the thing that other people want. And in this article you’re talking about how it’s an internal thing, it’s not the things we get from other people. So I love it that you’re like, yes, I also do this thing.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Well, I absolutely do this. So it’s comparison. It’s the flip side to comparing yourself to other people. And so one of my favorite sayings is comparison is a thief of joy. And I see so many people who are so wildly unhappy because they compare themselves to other people. And I think this is the worst thing about social media, and I think there’s a lot of worst things about social media, but this is probably the worst thing about social media is a lot of social media is geared up about getting us to compare ourselves to other people. And we look. And I don’t think people intentionally mean this to happen, but I think we all know it happens at some level, but people sort of post and I can’t help but look and say, man, their vacation looks better than my vacation. Or, boy, they do a lot of things with their kids more than I do. And oh man, I wish I could have gotten free from work to go to the Christmas event at my kid’s school. And wow, look at the fun Saturday they’re having with their dog.
I barely have time to take my dog out and walk a much less spend half the day at the dog park and then go to a cookout. There’s so much of that. But the counterpart to that, which I think is much more common, is the comparison of ourself to some metric that may not be another person. It’s some belief of what we should be doing or what success should be. And so I’ve talked about Skipper before when I talk about what it means to have a bad dog. And the truth is I say that jokingly. The truth is, if you compare Skipper to, I don’t know, Lassie or you say, boy, a good dog comes immediately when they’re called and they’re always right beside you and they don’t pull on the leash and they would never steal food off the table and they don’t piddle on the floor when people come over, then Skipper’s not a good dog.
But if you reset that measuring stick and you say, “I like I want a fun dog, I want a dog that’s always up for adventures and likes to play and squeaks his toys and runs around and is big and goofy and just genuinely funny and happy to be here,” then he is a good dog. But it’s the measuring stick that you set of what does it mean to be a good dog? And so that’s the basic idea with this. But I started writing this thing because I started looking around it and it was a kind of week that came and went. And I just had all these people around me who were just struggling. And one of them was a vet who was struggling. She didn’t think she was a real vet because she only worked one day a week in the clinic and that was really bothering her.
And there was another vet that was really hacked off because friends from high school were messaging her and asking for advice and she felt like she absolutely had to answer them in that moment at dinner and she was just mad. This is dah, dah, dah. And I asked her, I said, “Why do you do this?” And she’s like, “Well, because that’s what I do.” Basically that’s what it means to be a good vet is you drop what you’re doing and you help people who reach out to you. And I’m like, if that’s exactly how you define being good vet, then you are selecting this measuring tool. I don’t believe that dropping what you’re doing in the middle of dinner to ask pet health questions from people in high school is what it means to be a good vet. I don’t buy that.
But that’s a conscious rejection of that ruler for what it means to be a good vet. And so the same thing is people struggling with their confidence because they were not in the top half of their vet school class. And it’s like, I’m sorry, at what time did we all come together and say, “Hey, you know what constitutes being a good vet? The GPA you graduate with?” I wasn’t at that meeting. And if I was, I would not have voted for that because I was not in the top half of my vet school class. And I don’t think that that defines me as a subpar veterinarian in practice. I just don’t believe it.
Hey guys, I just want to jump in real quick and let you know about some great continuing education I have coming your way. Guys, I’ve partnered with Nationwide to put together a series of webinars that are 100%free to you. They have RACE CE, they are good to go, and they are going to be, first of all just genuinely entertaining and fascinating. The first thing I got coming for you is on November the 14th with my good friend Dr. Emily Tincher. She’s been on the podcast a number of times. I love having her here. She’s such a fun, interesting person who’s a deep thinker. And so anyway, she is doing a webinar called Clinical Empathy: The Exam Room Skill that Can Transform Your Team. I’ve had Emily on the podcast before talking about clinical empathy. This is a really good skill building webinar. This is great for your support staff as well as your doctors, but your team leads especially, but your technicians, your assistants, your CSRs, all of this is just, it’s such a great communication content. I think you’re going to really like it.
So anyway, that is on November the 14th. It is at 3:00 PM Eastern noon Pacific. And then the last one in the series is on December 13th. It is with Dr. Simon Platt. It is called Head Cases, a spectrum of care approach to neurology in general practice. So if you’re a neurology buff, if you like seizures, if you like knowing about seizures, if you like a neurophysical exam, tips, tricks and hacks, things like that, this is going to be a great webinar. So again, this is on December 13th. It’s at 1:00 PM Eastern, that’s 10:00 AM Pacific time. Gang, I would love to see you there. Links to all this stuff in the show notes. Go ahead and grab a spot, I’ll see you there. Let’s get back into this episode.

Jamie Holms:
Yeah. I think that that’s very true and I think we continue to use some of those weird metrics and they made sense when we were using them. One of the things, my dad said this to me the other day, my dad is 81 and I love him very much and he was having an old man moment-

Dr. Andy Roark:
I have those.

Jamie Holms:
… which he readily admitted. And he was like, “Did you know that those people can’t write in cursive?” And I was like, “Who cares?” That’s not a metric. That doesn’t make them a bad person. Why would they need to write in cursive? And he’s like, well, we had to write in cursive. And I’m like, “Dad, people used to hit you with a ruler because you were dyslexic.” And he’s like, yeah, okay, okay, old man moment. But it was funny because he pulled this random metric that doesn’t matter today. And I know there are people out there who believe that there’s a big cursive argument of whether we should be teaching it or not. And I understand how it helps your brain, I get that part. But is it going to help you be a better person later in life? Probably not. It’s the same thing as your clients aren’t asking you, “Hey, what was your GPA when you graduated?” They care more about your empathy and whether or not you bond with their pet and whether or not you think that fluffy is actually cute.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Doctor, can you write in cursive?

Jamie Holms:
Yes, exactly.

Dr. Andy Roark:
I’m going to need to see someone else.

Jamie Holms:
Yeah, exactly. I love that. And so I was thinking about how funny it is that we do pick these things and we measure ourselves. And mine used to be I judged myself on the number of CE hours that I had.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Oh, wow.

Jamie Holms:
And I, you’ll be shocked to know, always had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of CE.

Dr. Andy Roark:
You had hundreds of hours of CE?

Jamie Holms:
Hundreds of hours because-

Dr. Andy Roark:
I do this for a living and I don’t have hundreds of hours of CE.

Jamie Holms:
Yes, I know. But I would go home and I would take every CE thing that was in every magazine. I would do every free CE that came from IDEXX or from the food company, whoever it was. I would take all of that CE because I was just like, the more that I can show that I know, the more people will value my contribution, which was never true because nobody else ever saw that.

Dr. Andy Roark:
No one asked you how much CE you had.

Jamie Holms:
No, no one.

Dr. Andy Roark:
They said, do you have enough? And you said yes. And they were like, okay. And that was that.

Jamie Holms:
Great. Yeah, that was the end of the story. But I held myself to that expectation. And then as I went farther out of practice and started using my skills differently, I started doing less CE. And I didn’t abandon it entirely, I still more than meet my needs, but I looked at it differently. And if I was still holding myself to that same thing, I don’t know that I could do that anymore. My brain is older, I have less energy. I don’t know about you, but I used to be able to stay all night and work all day and my brain doesn’t do that anymore. So I love that we’re talking about how to find different metrics.
And I think self-worth is one of those. And I think that that’s something we’ve talked about before, how imposter syndrome and our colleagues just, they don’t necessarily have the self-worth. And I love that I have people on our team that I can turn to and be like, hey, can you hold this mirror up for a second because I can’t see myself well right now? And they can help me with that. And I was wondering if you had thoughts about how we help our colleagues find a different stick. You had some great ideas about things to use, but how do we shift this for the community?

Dr. Andy Roark:
Well, I think a lot of it is, I think we all struggle to see ourselves. You know what I mean? I think we all struggle to see ourselves. At some level, I think we all kind of wonder if we’re a good doctor or we wonder if we’re a good technician or whatever. Are we a good communicator? Are we a good boss? I did a podcast just recently with Dr. Natalie Marks and she was talking about perfectionism and being a practice owner. It was just fascinating to listen to her talk about this. And she sort of told the story of having this sort of realization that perfectionism is a manifestation of fear and that it was detrimental in what she was trying to accomplish. And towards the end of the episode, I asked her, “How did you come to this realization?” Because we were talking about the truth of the situation and kind of how to manage that if you have perfectionistic tendencies, but I was struck, how’d you come to realize this?
And she told this great story about being a practice owner and really wanting to be a great boss and then doing 360 degree feedback because that was what you were supposed to do. And she just got hit by a brick when someone was like, you are super intimidating. And it was absolutely, it sort of hammered her and made her short stop and step back. And so I think we all wrestle with that. I think one other piece of this that I want to tie into this before I start talking about what we can do about it, but again, it feels like a related thing is man, there’s so many veterinarians or vet techs looking at things that they want to do or whoever that are just waiting for permission. Is this idea that they need someone to tell them that they can have what they want or they can do what they want or they don’t have to care about this thing. It’s amazing.
It almost like it takes someone to say to them, “Hey, I saw the Google review that you got where someone wrote a one star review of you as a doctor because they called you at the clinic and it was your day off. I see that and I want you to know that’s ridiculous and that’s not your fault and you should ignore that.” And it seems absurd that someone have to give you permission to look at this obviously flawed thing and say that’s not representative of who you are. But I think a lot of us really want to hear that from someone else. And so I think one of the things that we can do for each other as colleagues is to point out what really matters to each other and just say, “Hey, I saw the impact you had on that person and that was amazing. And hey, I want you to know you’re a good friend and a good doctor. And hey, I always appreciate your insight and you’re a great mentor and that means a lot.”
And I think that people get so sucked up into other metrics that are communicated to them, they often forget about that stuff, but we can point that out to each other. I think the biggest thing for me in choosing the measuring sticks that matter is just being aware of the measuring sticks. I think my greatest hope with writing the article, and now we’re talking to you about this, is that people will just stop for just a minute and say, what measuring sticks am I measuring success with? And again, I have chosen so badly so many times in my life and just the process of stopping and evaluating like, wait a second, how am I measuring myself here? I mean, I used to beat myself up because of the number of hours that I worked or didn’t work in the practice, and I would beat myself up as a parent for the number of hours I spent with my kids.
And at some point I had to stop and say, well, wait a second, Andy, is hours in close proximity to your children, is that the measurement that we’re going to use here? Because I don’t know that that’s the best actual measurement of what we’re trying to accomplish. And the same thing the clinic is like, is me just physically being here, does that actually mean anything? I mean, we’re not talking about the number of patients I see. That’s just me being at the building and I feel guilty if I’m not at the building. And I go, this doesn’t make any sense. And so I just think so many of us, we don’t even question the measurements or other people put them on us. So you get called in for your performance review and the manager is like, “Hey, this is the number of pets that you saw in the last quarter and this is your average client transaction. And from those two numbers, I’m going to tell you if you’re a good doctor or not.”
And I’m like, no, you’re not. No, you’re not. You can tell me how many patients I saw and you can tell me what my average clinical transaction was, but I’m sorry, that’s not a two metric equation that makes a good doctor. I’m not saying those things are without value or we should ignore them, but I don’t buy the idea that I’m going to be summed up by those two metrics. Or you going to give those two metrics and say, this is really what matters. Because I’m sorry, I have my own beliefs about what measurements it takes to be a good doctor. And they’re around compassion, they’re around empathy. They’re around taking time to listen. It’s understanding other people. It’s being honest and acting with integrity. It’s being patient and kind. It’s all of those sorts of things. It’s continuing to learn. It’s being a better doctor than I was a year ago.
All of those things are measuring sticks that I’m interested in. I’m not saying anyone is worth any more than the others, but you just have to be really careful, especially if we get into this mindset of the only thing that matters is how many hours I spend at the practice, how much money I make in a quarter, things like that. You go, man, you’re summing way too much up into this one ruler. It’s not that good a ruler. It’s just not.

Jamie Holms:
Yeah, I completely agree with that. And I wanted to shout both preach and say it one more time for the people in the back because I hear so many people in the community talking about how they’re not good at this thing. We have a really good friend who’s a very good manager, and they are in a circumstance where there’s a new gig in town and a whole bunch of people left that practice.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Wow, brutal.

Jamie Holms:
Yeah. And she’s like, I am a bad manager. It’s like that isn’t why people are leaving. They are leaving because there are different hours. They’re leaving because of all of these other things, and you can’t judge yourself on that one thing. There are 10 other things that I know about you and I know about the people who work with you and your compassion and your care for the animals and for the people that work for you and what you do for our community as a whole. And again, when you’re in it, it’s real hard to stop and say, what is my measuring stick? What’s my measurement of success? And knowing that people look at it differently.
And there are things that we can change about how we talk to ourselves. And I think that would be my challenge to our community is to say, hey, when you hear people say, I am not good at this, or I don’t measure up in this way, or I’m not good enough, I challenge you to do what I like to do, which is to say, don’t talk about my friend like that. And I learned that because I had a really bad self-talk. I continued to have a bad self-talk. And so I learned to ask myself the question of would I say that to a friend? And if I wouldn’t say it to a friend, then I don’t get to say it to me.

Dr. Andy Roark:
I like that a lot. I took that from you, and I use that a lot when somebody will be down on themselves and it’s say, “God, I am the worst. I’m such an idiot.” I will say, “Hey, don’t say that about my friend.” And I learned that from you. And so I really do like that as sort of catching some self-talk. One of the other things going back to our person who’s feeling terrible because people are leaving their practice to go work at a new place that’s opening up is, it’s one of those things about picking your rulers again, going back to how are you going to measure yourself? I think we should all be really conscious and cognizant of the idea that we should not be picking ways to measure ourselves that are out of our control. And I see that all the time. You don’t get to control pet owners. Yet I myself would define, I would say, oh, I’m a good vet because I get good Google reviews.
And I’m like, buddy Andy, you are putting your self-worth into the hands of other people and you don’t have the power to make those people happy. There are going to be people who are just not going to like you and there’s nothing you can do about it. And it’s giving them the power to tell you whether or not you’re successful. I think it’s a bad idea. I think if you’re a manager and you set this bar at like, I’m going to have a hundred percent retention rate, no one’s going to leave my practice. I would say, you don’t have the power to keep these people at your practice. You don’t control what other practices can pay. You don’t control what other opportunities come along. You don’t control where other practices open up. Maybe they’re much more convenient to get to. You can’t control if people are just tired and want to change the scenery. You don’t have control over any of those things.
And so using that metric of retaining other people as the definer of whether or not you’re successful, I go, I think that that’s a bad measurement. I think that’s where I’d probably leave this and sum it up is my biggest thing on choosing the measurements that we use for ourselves is one, just to stop and recognize that you’re doing it. Recognizing. Just stop and say, how am I measuring myself here? I feel like I’m failing. What metrics am I using to come to that result? And what are alternative metrics that might be better? And I think it’s 100% on that. And the other part is to stop and say, what metrics are in my control? Am I picking things that I really do not have control over? And if you are, I think you should really rethink those measurements. I think you should go back to the things that you actually have input on.
And so you should decide what it means to be a good parent or a good spouse, not based on what other people think about your relationship, but what you and your partner think on your relationship or you and your kids find meaning in and what you’re going to look back on and be proud of. But it shouldn’t be, Hey, this is what Facebook says parents should do. Forget that that’s noise. But anyway, that’s sort of my thing with the rulers that we choose for ourself. It’s funny. And a lot of us have this ability to cycle through rulers where we measure ourselves this way and we measure ourselves that way and we measure ourselves this way, and none of the ways we choose to measure ourselves are kind. And I just think that that’s sad and that’s silly.
And so it’s something that I definitely picked up in my life is my younger self always chose harsh measurements. And I told myself that was the right thing to do because it was motivating. It was always motivating. But at some point, I don’t need to be motivated like that anymore. You know what I mean? I am, honestly, I’m doing my best. I’m happy with the work that I’m doing and how I’m doing it. I want an honest measurement, not a measurement that’s going to motivate me or terrify me or make me feel guilty so that I work harder or do things that, I don’t know, that I wouldn’t otherwise do.

Jamie Holms:
Yeah, I think that’s a perfect place to end, and I’d like to invite you to come back and talk with me about the art of kindness in an imperfect world.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Oh yeah. Oh, that’s funny. Yeah, The Art of Kindness article is a fun. It dovetails into this-

Jamie Holms:
I think so.

Dr. Andy Roark:
So the thing I want to talk to you about as well, I think I’m writing this piece right now based on what our friend Maria Pirita said to me recently.

Jamie Holms:
Is it, “Who’s Laughing Now?”

Dr. Andy Roark:
No, it was not.

Jamie Holms:
Oh, dang it. That’s a good story.

Dr. Andy Roark:
She does say, who’s laughing now? And that is a great story. I’ll tell a story at some point. But she was basically, we were talking about mindsets, and her mindset is just, it doesn’t seem that hard. That doesn’t seem that hard. And so when you say something to Maria like, oh man, we got to do this surgery. And she’s like, “How hard can it be?” That was the wording. How hard can it be? And I just thought it’s the best mindset you can possibly have is how hard can it be? And I’ve gotten myself into a lot of trouble with how hard can it be? But I’ve also had the best experiences in my life. I’ve also learned more than anything else, I have also just had the most fun, and I’ve also grown as a person when I have thought to myself, how hard can it be? And then I weighed in. So anyway, I think we’ll talk about that in the future.

Jamie Holms:
I can’t wait to read that article. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Andy Roark:
Thanks guys. And that’s it. That’s our episode, guys. I hope you enjoyed it. Thanks to Jamie for coming on. Thanks to Jamie for making the episode happen, because if she hadn’t said, “I really like the article and I’d like to talk to you about it on the podcast,” I don’t think I ever would’ve flipped on the microphone. So anyway, thanks to her for that. Guys, if you enjoy the podcast, it always means the world to me when people leave us an honest review. It’s how people find us. It gives me some feedback on the work that we’re doing, and it means a lot. So anyway, if you have a moment and you enjoy the podcast, please leave me an honest review wherever you get your podcasts, and or share the episodes with your friends. So anyway, guys, that’s all I got. Take care of yourselves, be well. I’ll talk to you later on.