Dr. Doug Mader joins Dr. Andy Roark to talk about his new book, The Vet at Noah’s Ark: Stories of Survival from an Inner-City Animal Hospital. They discuss Dr. Mader’s career in inner-city LA during and immediately after the Rodney King trial in the early 1990s, Dr. Mader’s evolution as both writer and veterinarian, and Dr. Mader’s view of where veterinary medicine is going in the future.
From the publisher:
From renowned veterinarian Dr. Doug Mader comes a stirring account of his fight to protect his animal patients and human staff amid the dangerous realities of inner-city life and the Los Angeles riots—and a celebration of the remarkable human-animal bond.
The life of a veterinarian is challenging: keeping up with advances in medical care, making difficult decisions about people’s beloved companions, and, in Dr. Doug Mader’s case, navigating the social unrest in Los Angeles in the early 1990s. As one of the few exotic animal experts in California, he was just as likely to be treating a lion as a house cat.
The Vet at Noah’s Ark: Stories of Survival from an Inner-City Animal Hospital follows Dr. Mader and his staff over the course of a year at Noah’s Ark Veterinary Hospital, an inner-city LA area veterinary hospital where Dr. Mader treats not only dogs and cats, but also emus, skunks, snakes, foxes, monkeys, and a host of other exotic animals. This real life drama is set against the backdrop of the trial of four police officers in the Rodney King case, as well as the violent aftermath following their acquittal.
You can also listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Soundcloud, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts!
LINKS
The Vet at Noah’s Ark: https://www.amazon.com/Vet-Noahs-Ark-Survival-Inner-City/dp/1954641044/
Dr. Doug Mader’s Wedsite: https://www.dougmader.com/
Dr. Doug Mader on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/douglas.mader.9
NEW Dr. Andy Roark Exam Room Communication Tool Box Course: https://drandyroark.com/store/
What’s on my Scrubs?! Card Game: https://drandyroark.com/training-tools/
Dr. Andy Roark Swag: drandyroark.com/shop
All Links: linktr.ee/DrAndyRoark
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Douglas R. Mader, MS, DVM, Diplomate ABVP (Canine/Feline), Diplomate, ABVP (Reptile/Amphibian), Diplomate, ECZM (Herpetology), Fellow, Royal Society of Medicine
Dr. Mader received his DVM from the University of California, Davis in 1986. In addition, he completed a Residency in Primate and Zoo animal medicine. He is the consulting veterinarian for the Monroe County Sheriff’s Zoo, the Key West Aquarium, Dynasty Marine, the Sea Turtle Hospital, the Everglades Alligator Farm and the Theater of the Sea. Previously Dr. Mader owned the Marathon Veterinary Hospital, a double AAHA accredited 24 hr emergency/referral hospital. Dr. Mader is an internationally acclaimed lecturer and is on the review boards of several scientific journals. He has published numerous articles in scientific and veterinary journals, national magazines, and, is the author/editor and co-editor of three textbooks on Reptile Medicine and Surgery. Dr. Mader’s latest project is his new book “The Vet at Noah’s Ark – Stories of Survival from an Inner-city Animal Hospital.”
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
This podcast transcript is made possible thanks to a generous gift from Banfield Pet Hospital, which is striving to increase accessibility and inclusivity across the veterinary profession. Click Here to learn more about Equity, Inclusion & Diversity at Banfield.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome everybody to the Cone of Shame veterinarian podcast. I am your host, Dr. Andy Rourke. Guys, I am here today with the one and only Dr. Doug Mader. We are talking about his new book, The Vet at Noah’s Ark: Stories of Survival from an Inner-City Animal Hospital.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Guys, this is a fun episode. It’s an interesting episode. Dr. Mader is such a wealth of information, obviously, on exotic animals. He’s written three textbooks. This book is stories. It’s stories from his life and career. It’s a one year time in his practice life. Man, he’s a smart guy. He also gives fantastic life advice. I just love hearing his insights on our profession. We get into all that today.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Guys, that’s enough for me. Let’s get into this episode.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter:
(Singing) This is your show. We’re glad you’re here. We want to help you and your veterinary career. Welcome to the Cone of Shame, with Dr. Andy Roark.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Doug Mader. Thanks for being back.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Dr. Rourke, thanks so much. Always appreciate it. It’s always fun talking with you.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Oh, you as well. I love having you on the episodes. You and I talked. Recently, we’ve done a couple exotic medical episodes. We talked about a [socotta 00:01:24] that got attacked in a dog attack. That was one of our recent episodes. I wanted to talk to you about things that you have going on that are not clinical cases, though. You are a prolific writer. You are someone that I have read their stuff for years and years and years.
Dr. Andy Roark:
You write medical pieces. You write opinion pieces. You write news. You have a regular newspaper column, and have for a number of years. Now, you have a new book. It is called The Vet at Noah’s Ark: Stories of Survival from an Inner-City Animal Hospital. Let me start off, why don’t you lay down your writing resume and origin story for me? How did you get started writing, and what has that been like?
Dr. Doug Mader:
I’ve always liked to write. I’ve always liked to read. I started writing creative writing back in high school. Been kind of a closet writer ever since. When I got to college, I wrote columns for the student newspaper. After college, I started doing newspaper or magazine articles, and continued with actual newspaper articles. I’ve written three textbooks, medical textbooks, and countless peer reviewed articles.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Well over 2,000 magazine and newspaper articles. Then under a pseudonym, I’ve written several short stories, but I’ve always wanted to write the great American novel, so to speak.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That’s amazing. I love when people are highly accomplished in vet medicine, and they have a hobby on the side. That’s something they do. The fact that you write under a pseudonym and write shirt stories, I think is awesome. I think more of us should have things that we’d get away from our regular day to day practice life and do like that.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Well, I tried to write this book under my pseudonym and the publisher said, “No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You have to use your real name.” My hero, and probably yours, and everybody in veterinary medicine, probably at some point read the James Harriet series, All Creatures Great and Small. For those of your listeners that aren’t familiar with him, he was a veterinarian in England, and he practiced back in the fifties and sixties. Then when he retired in the seventies, he penned a series of books.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Started out with All Creatures Great and Small, and then he had three sequels to that. He was a veterinarian in the countryside of Yorkshire, England. It was beautiful, rolling green hills, and friendly farmers baking him apple pies. His stories, he was an incredible writer. Just amazing. His stories were engrossing. You really felt like you were riding shotgun with him, as he drove in his old car through the countryside.
Dr. Doug Mader:
I probably read all of his books two or three times each, just because they were just so well written, and all about human and animal bond. It just was the magnet that took me into veterinary medicine, as I’m sure a lot of people, at least in my generation, felt the same way.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. I completely agree. I think one of the things that you have in your writings that are particularly interesting is you are, at least during the time of the writing here, you’re writing about the early 1990s. You were a general practice veterinarian, but your expertise in exotics is enormous. You were seeing a lot of exotic cases at the same time. I think that breadth of different types of cases that you see, I always think that’s really interesting.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I think this book is particularly interesting, in that it’s set in inner city LA in the early nineties in the backdrop of the Rodney King trial, and the social unrest that’s going on there as you and your staff navigate cases, and also the social unrest that’s going on at the time and in the area. Can you talk a little bit just about, sort of set the scene for me. What was going on at the time that you were telling these stories?
Dr. Doug Mader:
Sadly, Andy, the social unrest hasn’t really changed. We still see the same issues all around the country today. Back in the early nineties, for those not familiar with it, there was horrible, horrible situation, where a black motorist was pulled over and severely beaten by a group of police officers. It was probably one of the first times that something like this had been videotaped, because it was videotaped by somebody standing on their porch with an old video camcorder.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Then it got taken to the news stations. Of course, needless to say, once people found out about it, it caused quite a bit of rage, and just sadness. Really, people were upset about the way the whole thing went down. There was a lot of tension in the city. There were also some other high profile cases going on at the same time. The city was reaching this boiling point, right about that time that the book was written. The book takes place over one year. I wrote it in the first person. Technically it’s a memoir, but it actually reads more like a medical drama. It’s written in the first person, but it’s really about the human animal bond.
Dr. Doug Mader:
I like to make the analogy that I wanted to tell a story in a fashion similar to the James Harriet stories back in England. The difference though, of course, is where he drove a car through the beautiful rolling green, grassy hills and countryside. My situation was inner city, concrete, gangs, graffiti, drive by shootings, hookers, drugs, you name it. The common glue was that human animal bond.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Living in a situation like that and trying to do the best you possibly can to take care of people on their pets and prolong that bond. There’s some very trying circumstances. It was a challenge, hence the name of the book is The Vet at Noah’s Ark: Stories of Survival from an Inner-City Animal Hospital. There were some scenes, there were some episodes that were pretty hairy.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Dr. Doug Mader:
So far, the only criticism I received and everybody that’s read it, all the reviews of an extremely positive, but one person said they, they thought it was sad because of the whole situation with what was going on in the city and everything else at the time, which is true. It’s still sad today.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, no, I agree. I always love stories that have a backdrop that is interesting, and it can be poignant, and it can be challenging. I think as a lot of people look at the book today, and they think about where our world is now, and there’s a lot of existential anxiety, I think that a lot of us have, I think in a way, it’s nice to see that times have been hard in the past, and that the human animal bond rises above, and that we have a role to play and we can do things that are meaningful and important.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Yeah. I definitely agree with that.
Dr. Andy Roark:
You follow a number of different clients and a number of different cases as you sort of go through having the style of James Harriet. That was always my favorite thing is he would talk about the clients that he has. It was always amazing to me that I would read this set in 1800s, England. I would say, “I know those people.” Those people walk into our clinic today. People are people, wherever you are. Are there stories, are there individuals that you talked about in the book that still stand out in your mind? Do you have favorites?
Dr. Doug Mader:
Oh yeah. I’ve been a veterinarian, I’ve been in this profession for almost four decades. Sadly, we remember some of our success stories, and we remember some of the clients that are more colorful, so to speak. For me, a lot of the things that I remember are the cases that didn’t go well, because those are the ones that haunt me. Those are the ones that I lost sleep over.
Dr. Doug Mader:
There are some cases just like in human medicine, you do everything you possibly can. Face it, it’s a hospital, and animals come in, people come into hospitals, and they don’t always go home. That can be difficult. It’s one of those things that does lead to burnout. I think surrounding yourself with a great support group, and that would include staff, family, and friends, it helps you get through the bad days. Do I have favorites? Yes, I have favorites.
Dr. Doug Mader:
There’s some cases, this one’s not in the book, but I had to do a house call. It was a little old lady. She had to be in her mid to late seventies. She had a pet Congo fire eel that she kept in her bathtub. She’d had it there for 20 something years. Now, I don’t know how long Congo fire eels normally live, but it was actually in heart failure. This woman loved that eel. She had it there in her bathtub. Granted, it’s probably not the most natural place to keep a fire eel, but she fed it every day, and she was devastated.
Dr. Doug Mader:
It did eventually pass because it was in heart failure. Especially way back then, I don’t know about you, but I don’t have a ton of experience treating cardiac disease in Congo fire eels.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Nope.
Dr. Doug Mader:
We use what we learn in our dog and cat medicine. Then we try and apply it across species to some of these unusual animals. Yeah, there’s definitely, you hear about the young kids going into veterinary medicine. Like, oh, I don’t be a doctor. I don’t like people. The animal part is the easy part. It’s dealing with the clients is where the challenge can really come in. The animals want you to help them. Oftentimes, you have to get past that stonewall of a client to get them to allow you to treat the pet the way it needs to be treated.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Hey guys, I just want to jump in with a couple of quick announcements. I have got to thank Banfield the Pet Hospital for making transcripts of this podcast possible. Guys, in an effort to increase inclusivity and accessibility in our profession, to get people the information and to make sure everyone is included, Banfield has stepped up and made transcripts possible. You can find them at DrAndyRourke.com. Thank you to them. This is something I wouldn’t be able to do without their help.
Dr. Andy Roark:
God, it makes me so good to be able to offer this. Over at the Uncharted Podcast this week, me and Stephanie Goss are talking about, are you toxic? We got a letter in our mailbag from a veterinarian who is not happy at work. They are giving suggestions, and feeling shut down. They’re kind of resentful of it. They’re saying, “Am I a toxic person here? I’m starting to feel kind of toxic.” If you’ve ever been in this situation, this is a great episode to check out. Get it wherever you get podcasts. That is Uncharted Veterinary Podcast. It is this week. It came out yesterday, July the 13th.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Hey, gang. Let me ask you a question. If you could make clients easier to handle for your veterinary team, would you do it? Would you make clients, the client experience better for yourself and the people that you work with? Well, if your answer is yes, I just want you to know that I have worked really hard to help make this happen. I have two online on demand courses in the Doctor Andy Rourke store. One of them is all about charming angry clients. The other one is all about building trust and relationships with pet owners.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Guys, I worked really hard on these. This is the culmination of over a decade of lecture that I have done around the world, and working on these topics. It is my best stuff broken up into five to 10 minute modules, that you can just drop into staff meetings. You can put them wherever you want. It doesn’t have to be a big deal. You can use them in morning huddles. It is a way that you can keep giving your people tools, just to make their lives easier. That’s what they’re all about. If you’re interested, head over to DrAndyRourke.com, and just click on the store button. You can see what’s there.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I’ve also got What’s on My Scrubs card game, which is just something fun, little team building educational activity that might make your people laugh. Anyway, I want you guys to know that’s there. I hope that you will check it out. In the Uncharted Veterinary community, guys, we’re doing a workshop that I’m super proud of. It is my friend, the one and only Doctor Amanda Doran. She’s doing a workshop called Mavigating Neurodiversity, your clients’ coworkers and self.
Dr. Andy Roark:
This is all about navigating interactions with different people, and creating a culture that is supportive of neurodiversity in the workplace. Guys, this is not a workshop that I have seen before. I am super excited to have it. I think these are conversations we need to be having. I’m really proud to be a part of the Uncharted veterinary community, and being able to help bring out workshops like this.
Dr. Andy Roark:
As always, this workshop is free to our Uncharted members. It is $99 to the public. I will put a link down in the show notes. Now, let’s get back into this episode. If you could go back and talk to yourself in the early nineties, is there advice that you would give yourself as you were going into this period?
Dr. Doug Mader:
Yeah, I know probably most people don’t make mistakes, but I certainly made more than my fair share of them. I wish I had the knowledge back then that I have now. I probably wouldn’t make the same mistakes, or if I did, I’d have a better ability to handle them.
Dr. Doug Mader:
One of the biggest things I could tell young doctors is know your limits, and don’t overstep your limits, and don’t be afraid to reach out for help. If you have a case that’s difficult, call an expert. Get a second opinion, refer it out. It’s nothing wrong with that.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay. I want you to unpack that a little bit, because when I look at you, I know you didn’t have formal training in the areas of expertise that you excel in today. You are, in my mind, the picture of the doctor who tries things, who educates himself, and steps out, and does these unique things. Your breadth of experience is just amazing.
Dr. Andy Roark:
How do you balance that, know your limits with what seems, when I look at you and the impression I have of you is someone who continues to push and grow, and who’s not afraid to do new things, and try new things, and educate yourself. How do you square those two things? How would you say that to a doctor?
Dr. Doug Mader:
Well, it’s different. In the last 35 years, things have changed quite a bit. I did, just to set the record right, my residency was in primate and zoo medicine. We didn’t do a lot of reptiles back then, but I also became very good friends with a veterinarian named Dr. Fred Fry. He was probably the grandfather of reptile medicine. He wrote the first two books on it. We met at a bookstore. I didn’t know who he was. We became friends before I knew who he was.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Then he took me under his wing. I was very fortunate in that although I didn’t have formal reptile training, I did have a friend who was probably one of the best reptile veterinarians in the whole world. To answer your question specifically, there will be crossroads in your career, where you have a case, whether it’s a dog, a cat, buggy, or a reptile that it needs help. You may never have done it before. You say, “Okay, I’m going to refer this to a board certified avian specialist.” The owners go, “I can’t afford it, or it’s too far away. I can’t take six hours and drive to the vet school or to the nearest specialist.”
Dr. Doug Mader:
You may have to try it, but I think the important thing is you need to be really upfront with the client and say, “Mrs. Smith, Fluffy here has got a kidney tumor. We need to go in and try and remove part of the kidney. I’ve never done this before. If you want me to try it, I’m willing to try it, but be aware that I’m straight up with you. This is new to me.” Now legally, if things go wrong, you’re still held potentially liable, even if you tell them that. Whenever possible, you always want to try and reach out.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Andy, the beauty of today is people like you. You’ve got a podcast. You help teach people. The internet is amazing. I didn’t have that in the early nineties. I couldn’t quickly look something up on the internet. You dig out the books, and you hope that you could find it in a journal or book someplace. Now, you can pick up the phone, and there are so many services available, where you can consult with experts in any different specialty area and come up with a plan.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Maybe I can’t refer Fluffy up to the University of Florida, which is eight hours away, but I can talk to one of the experts there, and they can kind of walk me through it. We do have a lot more available to us, the tools now that we didn’t have back then. You’re right. Sometimes you had to do things for the first time.
Dr. Andy Roark:
What’s your perspective of where vet medicines going today? You tell stories about the past, and you’re still very involved in our profession. Are you optimistic about the future of practice? Do you see this continuing on as a wonderful profession? Do you have concerns? As you look at the landscape and reflect back on the stories from your own career, what are your thoughts on the future?
Dr. Doug Mader:
Well, let me rephrase your question. If I had a chance to do it all over again, would I? Absolutely, I would. I love what I do. I love waking up in the morning. My goal is to do what I can to help the human animal bond. Let me expand on that, just to finish answering your question.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Dr. Doug Mader:
The human animal bond is the little kid with their pet kitten, or it’s the old man walking his dog in the park, or it’s the guy with the leather jacket and the snake around his neck. It could also be you and I going up and doing photography, and taking pictures of a bald eagle. That’s still a bond, or it could be the family going to the local zoo, and looking at the animals at the zoo. That’s still a bond. The human animal bond is really a broad category.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Whether I’m helping the woman with her bird that’s got the kidney tumor, or I’m working with fish and wildlife, and fixing a wing on a bald eagle that’s been shot, I’m still doing something to help that human animal bond. Then you and I can go back out there in two or three months, and see that eagle flying by again and take our pictures. That’s just what keeps me going. To answer your question, because I know I’m talking in circles, would I do it again? Absolutely. I love what I do. I love the people. I love working with the animals. I love the technical challenge. I love surgery, endoscopy, ultrasound. I love all of that.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Now, where is it going? That human animal bond’s not going away. People will always have pets. Even people that don’t have a lot of money still have that desire for companionship. It could be a goldfish. I know you’ve had bad days. We’ve all had bad days. How many times have you come home and you picked up the cat and you just hold it until it purrs? What does that do? Drops your blood pressure, centers you. Makes you find your zen. I used to have pet fish before the hurricane. My aquarium was six feet long, and it ran the length of the wall by my front door.
Dr. Doug Mader:
When I’d get home at night, all my fish would be waiting in the corner of the tank by the front door. As I walk past them, I’d say hello, and they’d all swim down to the other end of the tank, waiting for me to put my backpack down or whatever I had to do, so I could come back and feed them.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Now, of course, did they love me? I would like to say yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, sure. Of course.
Dr. Doug Mader:
I’m the guy with food. Absolutely. The bottom line is, those fish depended on me, and it always made me happy to be able to feed them and watch them enjoy their meals. To answer your question, I think the profession is here to stay. It’s changed. We have a lot more specialists now. You have a lot of people out there that can help you get through difficult, challenging cases that you had to struggle through before, sometimes trip and fall. Would I do it again? Absolutely. Absolutely. I would highly recommend to any young student coming through, or technician, that if you want to do this, pursue your passion. It’s good.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That’s great advice. I love that answer. The last question I have for you is, do you have any advice you would give to someone who has always dreamed about writing? They’ve always, kind of like you, they had an interest from the beginning. I think a lot of people struggle with fear of putting themselves out there, or thinking that why would anyone want to read what I have to say? Do you have advice for someone who thinks that they might enjoy it, but has not picked up the pen?
Dr. Doug Mader:
I think if you like write, the key is you should write at least a page day. I learned that years and years and years ago. I keep a journal. The story, by the way, just happen to have a copy right here.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Nice.
Dr. Doug Mader:
The story is true. It’s a true story. Everything in there comes out in my journal that I kept. The dates, the timelines, the people, the pets, they’re all real. I changed the names of most of the people in the book out of privacy reasons, people that were in the news, like Rodney King, and lot of the people that were in the news back then, the public figures, their names are all real. Write. That’s all, you just have to write. They say you’re not a writer until you’ve written at least a million words. To put that in perspective: one typed page is 250 words. Do the math.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay.
Dr. Doug Mader:
I have long since passed that. I’m probably up well over two million words by now. The thing is, you can always get better. It wasn’t that long ago I signed up for an adult education night course on creative writing. You can always learn, just like in veterinary medicine. You think that, oh, I know it all, but then you go to a conference, and you’re always learning new things.
Dr. Doug Mader:
If you like to write, and you want to write, just start writing. Keep a journal, keep a diary. Doesn’t mean you have to publish it, but the more you write, A: you’re going to have good memories. You’ll have stuff you can go back and reference. Then down the road, sometime when you get old like me, if you want to turn it into a book, you’ve got all that stuff already there. You just have to reword it so that it’s in a story fashion.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. Yeah, that’s it. I love that advice. Dr. Doug Mader, your new book is The Vet at Noah’s Ark: Stories of Survival from an Inner-City Animal Hospital. It is available in hardback and on Kindle. I will put links in the show notes. Where can people find you online?
Dr. Doug Mader:
DougMader.com. If you go to my website, and there’s links there right to the book, and you can actually purchase the book through my website via the publisher, or any number of online book sellers. All the major brick and mortar book sellers like Barnes and Noble are carrying it. It’s fairly easy to get.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Awesome.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Barnes and Noble has it out right now. It just came out last week. For some reason, Amazon, it’s going to be out on July 12th, but it is out there and it is available. So far, like I said, people seem to like it. The New York Post listed it as required reading, which was quite humbling and quite an honor. I never expected that. I was pretty flabbergasted, because right next to me was James Patterson. I’m thinking …
Dr. Andy Roark:
Oh wow.
Dr. Doug Mader:
That’s good company.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s fantastic. Well, congratulations. I am super excited for you. I’m super excited about the book. Guys, I’ll put links to all these things in the show notes. I hope you guys will check it out. Everybody, take care of yourselves.
Dr. Doug Mader:
Thanks, Andy. I appreciate it a lot.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That is our episode. Guys, I hope you enjoyed it. Thanks to Dr. Doug Mader for being here, again, and I put links to his book in the show notes. I hope you guys will check it out. Gang, take care of yourselves. Be well, see you soon. Bye.
