Steve Dale, certified animal behavior consultant (CABC), joins Dr. Andy Roark to discuss what modern pet owners want. Steve explains the rise of the “fur baby” and how that cultural shift has intersected with a larger demand for convenience and immediate service. Steve imagines what the desired pet owner experience looks like today, and what it might look like five years from now.
You can also listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Soundcloud, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts!
LINKS
Steve’s Blog & Website: https://stevedalepetworld.com/
TikTok: @groucho_thefunnycat
Dr. Andy Roark Exam Room Communication Tool Box Team Training Course: https://drandyroark.com/on-demand-staff-training/
Dr. Andy Roark Charming the Angry Client Team Training Course: https://drandyroark.com/charming-the-angry-client/
Dr. Andy Roark Swag: drandyroark.com/shop
All Links: linktr.ee/DrAndyRoark
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Steve Dale, certified animal behavior consultant (CABC), has reached more pet owners over the past few decades than any other pet journalist in America.
He is the host of two nationally syndicated radio shows, Steve Dale’s Pet World and The Pet Minute (together heard on more than 100 radio stations, syndicated Black Dog Radio Productions, since 2005). He’s also a special contributor at WGN Radio, Chicago, and program host of Steve Dale’s Pet World (since 1997), and host of Steve Dale’s Other World, a general talk show (2020). He formerly hosted the nationally broadcast Animal Planet Radio.
He’s currently a writer and contributing editor for CATster, columnist for DVM 360 where he also serves as a member of the Editorial Advisory Board. He’s also a columnist for the Journal of National Association of Veterinary Technicians in America. Steve is Chief Correspondent at Fear Free Happy Homes.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome everybody to The Cone of Shame veterinary podcast. I am your host, Dr Andy Roark. I’m here with the one and only Steve Dale today. Steve Dale is… How to you describe Steve Dale? He does a million things. He’s a host of four different radio shows, he is a pet journalist, he’s a writer. He’s got more books than anybody that I know, I think. He’s just a fascinating, interesting person. And I had Steven today and I said, “Steve, help me understand what pet owners actually want.” And boy, he lays down a great thesis. He talks about the rise of the fur baby and what that meant as a cultural shift, he’s talking about how that intersects with people’s demand to have immediate service, convenience culture, and he talks about technology and how pet owners are using technology.
And it’s just… I don’t know. I really like a lot of his ideas. I think he takes a lot of things we all see and he bundles them together into a nice little package that makes sense and then go, “Oh, this is useful in conceptualizing the world we live in right now.” So anyway, guys, I really enjoy this episode, I hope you will as well. Let’s get into it.
Kelsey Beth Carpenter:
(Singing) This is your show. We’re glad you’re here. We want to help you in your veterinary career. Welcome to Cone of Shame with Dr. Andy Roark.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Welcome to the podcast, Steve Dale. How are you my friend?
Steve Dale:
Man, I’m great because I’m here with Dr. Andy Roark. How can I not be?
Dr. Andy Roark:
It is so good to have you. You and I have been friends a long, long time. I was lamenting with you before we came on, I’ve not gotten to see you as much as I used to since the pandemic. For those who don’t know you, it’s hard to give you a title. You are a certified animal behavior consultant, you are a frequent writer. I think I saw one of your columns in today’s Dot Business, Recently, you have a blog at stevedale.tv. You have chapters and contributions to countless animal and veterinary books. You have four radio shows. You are like me, you are a man of many interests and hobbies. So thanks so much for being here. I was thinking about you recently and I was looking at some-
Steve Dale:
Oh, oh.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I know. I was looking at some of your writing and, Steve, I think the title that I would give to you. I don’t know that there’s anyone else who is enmeshed in veterinary medicine that thinks about the experience and the perspective of the pet owner as much as you do. You are a real advocate for pets and especially for pet owners. And I think a lot of times when we start talking about the future and I like to sit and think about where all this goes, I can’t help but look at it from the perspective of a veterinarian or someone who’s very much an insider in veterinary medicine.
And so I was sitting there and I was thinking about the future and I was thinking about artificial intelligence and how it interfaces with pet health and with pet owners and with, who knows, products, technologies that pet owners are going to want to use, I was thinking about home delivery of products and services, I was thinking about mid-level practitioners and all of these things, and I was like, “I wonder what pet owners want in all of this, and I wonder where their mind is.” And I don’t know that there’s a better person than you to start to have those thoughts because you do so much in that space of listening to pet owners, talking with pet owners, things like that. And so let me just pause here for a second. I’d like to open this up and say Steve Dale, when you think about pet owners, the modern pet owner, what do they want and how is it different than five years ago?
Steve Dale:
That’s a big question. So pets have been for a very long time members of the family, but the bond is more intense than it ever has been. I remember some number of years ago when people really began to use the term fur babies. And a lot of your colleagues, veterinarians, and I might have been in that camp too, said, “Whoa, come on. They’re not babies.” But to a whole lot of pet parents, that’s exactly what they are. They are their babies. They feel that they are their babies. And incidentally, and I’m going to talk a little bit all over the place here, but it comes to mind that fear-free and cat friendly practices came along at just the right time. And the reason for that is because today it’s the perception, which is the important word here, is that you are in some way not treating their pet emotionally appropriately.
I’m not talking about medically you saying one thing, I’m talking about the emotional wellbeing of that animal or manhandling the cat, or dogs, but cats in particular. So it wasn’t all that long ago. And I can still go to YouTube and find videos of veterinarians today that the cat is in the carrier, they’re turning the carrier upside down and going, “Come on, cat, get out of the carrier.” And then they get the fishing pullout, the fishing net literally to grab a cat. Well, today’s clients greatly would just walk away. They’re not seeing you ever again. And they may not go to a veterinarian for a very long time as a result of that. They want their pet to feel good during the visit and they themselves want to feel good about the visit. So that’s one thing I think that has dramatically changed.
And that was changing, but then along came the pandemic and the profession infusing X number, and I’ve got the numbers if you want them, but X number of veterinarians and technicians, certified licensed credential technicians into the profession, and at the same time losing more than were entering the profession for a variety of different reasons that we could talk about if you like. At the same time all that is happening, more people bringing a pet into their life. During the pandemic or at the onset of the pandemic, shelters and rescues everywhere around the country, and to a great extent around the world, said, and I quote, “Help,” because they didn’t know what was coming. They didn’t know if their volunteers or staff could go into feed the animals, they didn’t know if anyone could be there just to scoop boxes, take dogs for walks, et cetera. So they needed to clear the shelters like never before in history. And people stepped up.
So the number of pet parents skyrocketed, note it there I said pet parents, not pet owners, but it skyrocketed just almost overnight. So you’ve got that happening. More pets today than ever before, most households in America have at least one pet. There are more pets in America than there are children. That’s what it’s become in this country, and I love it. The problem is all those animals need veterinary care and we are not accustomed to waiting for that veterinary care, and in part because people have left the profession, in part because there are more pets, and in part because our patience as a culture has disappeared. It has nothing to do with veterinary medicine.
You walk into a restaurant, then the waiter doesn’t come in two minutes to say, “What’s your order?” Then you’re up, I’m writing a bad review. We’ve totally, as a culture, have changed. That impacts all service industries, and when it comes down to it, in some ways, veterinary medicine is a service industry. Then add one more thing in, and that is pre-pandemic veterinary medicine was not keeping up with technology. What physicians, for example, or dentists could do and do on a daily basis routinely veterinary medicine was not doing. And now more than ever before, clients are saying, “You need to do this.” And I’ll talk about what I mean by this if in fact you’d like me to.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. There’s a couple of things here, but let’s go ahead and start with that. But then I want to come to some other things you said. So you’re talking about embracing technology. What is the type of technology that you’re talking about that pet owners are saying, “Why aren’t you guys on board with this?” What are the pieces of that they see? Because when you say technology, I immediately think practice management software. I don’t think that’s what pet owners are thinking about at all, they don’t see that. They’re very much looking at consumer facing software that we are not using. What are you saying, Steve? Are you basically saying that we should have apps? Is that where your head is? What does that mean to you when you start talking about technology that pet owners want?
Steve Dale:
Most pet owners today, back up one step, are millennials, and those who aren’t are… I’m getting my Xs and Zs mixed up here, are Gen Zers, right? Is that right? I think. And what I do know is that millennials have impacted every generation more than any other generation before them. So what they do, their parents are doing, and what they do, those millennials that are old enough or do have kids, because for so many millennials, we’re talking so many millennials, their children, their only children, and I’m in that bucket, I don’t know that I’m a millennial, but don’t argue with me, are their four-legged family members, that’s their kids. But for those that have kids with two legs, they impact of course what they do as well. So on both ends, they are hugely impactful.
And let’s talk about texting, for example, that is the preferred communication for anything, having nothing to do with veterinary medicine for the moment. That is how millennials prefer to communicate. We know that through all sorts of surveys. Well, they’ve taught their kids to do that, and now their kids are old enough in many cases to have pets, and their parents, who we thought they don’t do that kind of thing. But during the pandemic, there are a surprising number of 90 year olds that actually do text. So not only the parents, in some cases their grandparents. And to think that that’s not preferred communication or whatever veterinarian medicine thinks, I think sometimes it’s just not thought about, but in fact it would save veterinarians time and money to utilize Weave or those sorts of services more often just to, okay, you’ve got a dog that came in for a routine prophylaxis.
Instead of calling, you tell me what happens when you call the pet parent, you get their voicemail because they didn’t recognize your number, you get their voicemail because they don’t pick up the phone anyway, you get their voicemail because they’re on the other phone, you get their voicemail because they’re busy doing something else. Then they call you and maybe the line’s busy, and then they forget to call you back. So much time is invested in that. Well, a text is going to go through in all likelihood. What’s more, there are lots of software services that you could send a… What is it? GIF or GIF?
Dr. Andy Roark:
I go with GIF but I’ve been argued with many times.
Steve Dale:
You can send an image that moves. How’s that?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, I like it.
Steve Dale:
Of the pet, and pet parents love that. So now they can see their dog, quote unquote, smiling and the tech simply reads your pet is ready. Of course, if there’s an issue in that routine dental that turned out not to be so routine, oh, we needed to pull four teeth, after all it’s a 12-year-old Yorkie, then of course you make that [inaudible 00:12:51]
Dr. Andy Roark:
That’s not a gift communication. The problem is we don’t communicate that with GIFs, but no, I like it.
Steve Dale:
Of course, but most of the time they’re [inaudible 00:13:02]
Dr. Andy Roark:
If you dream of doing team training with your team, getting your people together, getting them on the same page, talking about how you guys work together in your practice, I’d love to help you. You can check out drandyroark.com and check out our store. I have two different team training courses. These are courses for teams to do together to get on the same page and to talk about how you do things. I have my angry clients course and I have my exam room toolkit course, and they are both available and there to come out. All right, guys, let’s get back into this episode.
Well, I love it, this goes right back to your point at the very beginning, which was the transition towards fur baby as this powerful term. You are talking about integrating that culture into the communication that we have in a significant way.
Steve Dale:
And it’s not being done now. If you think about it, Andy Roark, you don’t feel well, you’re going to call your doctor maybe, you’ll probably go to a portal and ask the doctor a question, and the doctor will answer very quickly, depending on your doctor through that portal, that is the way human medicine works, that is increasingly the way dentistry is working, you can even make appointments online. Veterinary medicine is not there yet and is what clients want. And the big thing clients want is to do what we’re doing right now, virtual conversations, and it can be done. It comes in two buckets. One should not be controversial. There’s a patient client relationship maybe for 20 years, I don’t know, and still it’s not being done. Registered, certified, licensed technicians can mostly answer those questions. Questions like how is the dog or cat doing following surgery?
That can be a virtual follow-up conversation, which incidentally also shows how much you care, clients want to know that you care, so it’s a win-win. And maybe there’s something that leads to, oh my, let’s increase that analgesic or whatever, because you’re doing that follow-up for behavior. You can actually see where all those litter boxes are in their house or lack of litter boxes, and have that conversation all done virtually. You cannot really, I don’t think, unless you have stairs in your exam room, see the dog or cat go up and down the stairs, and you can’t see them move like they move at home anyway, of course. So for osteoarthritis, of course, I’m not saying that this is a substitute for palpation or for radiographs or any of that, but for follow up, for sure, is Solensia really working, and this other, I don’t know, massage therapy, are you doing it correctly? Are you using the Assisi LOOP correctly? Whatever.
You’re able to go through all of that. These are all potentials, and I’m just touching on the surface, of what can be done and should be done, in my opinion, virtually. But I go further, I say there are services out there now, like it or not, good or bad, services out there now, veterinary professionals, technicians that are licensed, certified, registered technicians, as well as veterinarians that are talking like you and I are talking. I ask you, “My dog is limping. Should I worry? Here, you can see the dog doing what the dog does.” I’m talking to you because I can’t reach my veterinarian, and that’s a big problem for a variety of different reasons, including the fact that we are, as I mentioned, more impatient as a culture than ever before. We don’t want to wait two weeks.
Historically, veterinarians have been so responsive as a profession, people are not accustomed to waiting two weeks because they are their babies. They can’t wait two weeks, it’s their baby. They want to know what’s happening. They need to know what’s going on. And if you’re not able to see me, I need to see somebody else, and that someone else could be Dr. Google, that someone else could be the lady who lives down the hallway in an apartment building who has seven cats, therefore she must know about that.
Dr. Andy Roark:
She must know, yeah.
Steve Dale:
That person could be anyone, a dude at the dog park. Do I really need a Lyme vaccine? I don’t know. I can’t reach my veterinarian. You then can work with these companies that are there anyway. They are there anyway, they are doing what they are doing on the fringe so to speak, but this is what I know pet parents want. And veterinary medicine has said, “Nope, we can’t do it.” I don’t get that, because… Of physicians can, which include pediatrician, which knocks the argument down, the argument has been, well, you’re speaking for the pet. The pet can’t speak for himself. Well, I don’t think an infant can speak for him or herself, and the parent is speaking for that baby. This is no different than the furry babies that the parent is speaking for.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay. Wow. That’s a lot. I love where your head’s at, just thinking about where we go from here, you had talked about wait time for care as one of the big drivers. Before we got into technology, you were talking about wait time and you were talking about… I feel like you’re building a pretty robust argument here of, again, going back to the idea that pets have been elevated in the minds of pet owners and now we are at a place where we’ve had a labor shortage, we’ve had more people leaving the profession than coming into it, wait times are increasing, and then we add in technology and you’re saying, okay, well, in your opinion, the fringe outlets where people go to get pet healthcare that maybe veterinarians would not endorse or recommend, you feel like that’s coming up because it’s harder and harder to get into the veterinarian. Just closing the loop, is that an accurate summary of your position?
Steve Dale:
Well, people, for several years have been going to Dr. Google, right?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Right.
Steve Dale:
That’s not new. But given no other choice, people are going to go anywhere they can to get advice. Think about in your own life, you can’t get legal advice from your lawyer because your lawyer is spending all your money on a trip to Bermuda. So instead you reach out to someone else who you know is a lawyer, you ask that question, even though the question you have is about copyright and your lawyer’s a copyright lawyer, and the lawyer you’re asking is a ambulance chasing lawyer, there are none of those, of course, it’s a different kind of lawyer, you know you’re not getting the best advice, but you’re getting sunk. That is what pet parents want.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That makes sense to me. I do buy that. The best example I can give I think is in your own personal health, or at least for me, at some point there’s this gray zone between when I feel bad, when my stomach starts to hurt, and it doesn’t go away for a day. And when I pull the trigger and go see my doctor or I am on Google, and I’m not the only one. I am definitely not the one now who’s like, “My knee hurts. What stretches can I do for my knee? What YouTube physical therapy exercises can I find?” Like I said, I don’t want to live in a glass house and cast stones. And so I do agree that that’s where a lot of people go. When you start to think about access to care, Steve, and getting people in, and meeting this need and saying… Because I’m 100% on board with you, I think people’s patience is getting shorter and shorter and shorter, and convenience really is king.
And people, when they decide they want something, they want it yesterday, and they’ve got Amazon flying things in with drones to drop them on their doorstep, and that’s the world that we’re living in.
Steve Dale:
Access to care, if I may jump in there means…
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, sure.
Steve Dale:
… A couple of other things as well. It’s not only everything you just said and I already spoke about, which is true, but we would also open up opportunities where there aren’t [inaudible 00:21:28] For example, there are communities all over, including the city I live, in Chicago, that have veterinary deserts for miles in certain neighborhoods in our city that I live in, but cities urban areas all over the country, there aren’t veterinarians practicing. So having the opportunity to speak like we’re speaking now online, to do virtual care would provide some comfort and some level of credible care for those folks. There are people all over America that live 80 miles away from a veterinarian, that’s a small animal veterinarian per se that might live in middle of Iowa but not near an urban center in Iowa, and therefore not near a veterinarian. So this technology, which isn’t all that technical really anymore, it will help other people as well.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Okay. So here’s what I want to do, because I’m on board with this, I want to hand you the Cone of Shame magic wand that I have here on the podcast, and I want to give it to you, and I’ll say, “Steve, now, using this magic wand, meaning you could craft this in the way that you like.” You can say, “Optimistically, this is what I would like to have happen.” Can you use it and then tell me what that medicine looks like in five years? And just say, “If I have my magic wand, if I could build this system the way that I want it to be,” given everything that we’ve laid down so far in this conversation, Steve, help me see that vision in your mind. What can this look like?
Steve Dale:
It’s been said that millennials, which are driving veterinary care and services around America of all kinds because so many… That’s where the numbers are at, that’s where therefore the money is at, and as I said, veterinary medicine is a service industry when it comes down to it. So what I would do is do what the millennials want, not only because they want it, because it’s the right thing to do, and it should be done. It’s not a difficult thing to do. One more thing, millennials, it’s been said, aren’t going to be loyal. That actually is not true. If you can show them that you can respond the way they want responses to them, and we’re talking about changes in communication patterns. So if we can provide virtual care in any way by credible individuals, veterinary professionals, any way whatsoever, whether they have a relationship or not with that veterinarian, that’s one thing.
And then the second thing is to use technology like texting. I’m not even sure that I would call that technology anymore. Using portals, which as I say, other medical professions have been using for a while, even predating the pandemic, using what is available to communicate the way in which pet parents want to be communicated. And at the same time, you are relieving yourself, you are making life easier as a veterinary professional for yourself. You are pleasing technicians because you are giving them work to do that they’re qualified to do and they’re doing it. You’re not doing it. That’s better for the practice.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I love that, buddy. I think that’s such a beautiful vision. I like where your head’s at. I like how you’re thinking. What are the biggest pitfalls that you see for vet medicine going forward? Where do you think our profession or individual practices, what are the mistakes that they’re likely to make or that would be disastrous in your mind given the vision you just laid out?
Steve Dale:
I’d like to think that’s not going to happen. The mistake would be to not pay attention to anything that I am talking about, not because I’m talking about it.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I agree. The biggest mistake people make on the regular is not listening to me. I’ll tell you that. My wife makes that mistake all day every day, and it’s sad.
Steve Dale:
No, I would not say that about my wife, because we’re going to be married 30 years and I want to keep it that way. I think that I know that the profession has grand plans for doing all sorts of things like creating a new position that would be this mid-level position, which would be in human medicine, it would be a… Help me.
Dr. Andy Roark:
A nurse practitioner.
Steve Dale:
Yeah, nurse practitioner in veterinary medicine. Whether that’s good or bad, it’s not happening tomorrow, I have a view about that not being so good, but let’s worry about that later. It’s not going to happen now anyway. It can’t. It can’t happen that fast. To add more veterinary schools, to add larger classes to veterinary schools, that is actually beginning to happen to go into primary schools and encourage people in all neighborhoods in America to go into veterinary medicine or teaching humane education. [inaudible 00:26:50] all these plans that are wonderful that aren’t going to change or be of any rescue to the profession today, to pet parents or to professionals, and what I’m talking about veterinary professionals could do today, literally.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I think that’s great. I love that. So to summarize the point, the biggest pitfall is not getting serious about the service that we’re providing right now that pet owners are demanding, I think that’s a great point, I think that’s a great word of warning. Steve Dale, you are amazing. I love your energy, I love getting to talk to you, I love hearing your ideas and how you look at the profession. Where can people find you? It’s not hard, you’re everywhere. What are your favorite platforms and places for people to connect with you?
Steve Dale:
My favorite is my own website. So I write a blog post pretty much every day, stevedale.tv. And you can find me in social media, wherever your social media is. And I’ve not been on TikTok until recently. We now with a kitten who’s no longer a kitten, he’s a year old, and I thought, okay, Groucho, that’s the kitten, ought to have a TikTok page, so you could find groucho_thefunnycat on TikTok.
Dr. Andy Roark:
groucho_thefunnycat on TikTok.
Steve Dale:
_thefunnycat.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Thanks so much for being here. Guys, thanks for tuning in. Take care of yourselves everybody. Hope you enjoyed the episode. And that is our show, guys. That’s what I got. I hope you enjoyed it, I hope you got a lot out of it. Thanks to Steve for being here. As always, if you enjoyed the podcast, share it with your friends and or leave me an honest review wherever we get your podcast, that’s the nicest things you can do. Anyway, gang, take care of yourselves. Be well. Enjoy practice. I’ll talk to you later. Bye.
